FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Yeah, this thread will never win any awards for coherency, and the second quote to Matty could be interpreted a number of ways, but if Jose did cooperate with the FBI, as he claims in Post #161, there doesn't seems to be any findings of wrongdoing on his part, but only the FBI allegedly admitting that clearly bad packs were graded and there was no crime in that.

So I guess yet another question is did the FBI destroy the packs? Did Jose contact the FBI or someone else? I'm not sure how much the FBI wants people creating fake items to only say "I'm conducting my own investigation". I bet they hear that one alot.

All I know is I would never trust someone trying to create bogus items for any reasong. Why not just approach PSA if they see bad items and offer information to why they think it's fraudulent. That seems more an asset to this hobby than spending time creating fake items.

[Wite3]

Jose is starting to sound more and more like Peter Nash...

[oldjudge]

I'm late to the dance, but if all Jose did was to pass some bad packs by PSA with the intent being to show that they didn't know what they were doing, and never sold any of these packs, he did nothing wrong. In fact, he pointed out a weakness in the hobby. Sounds like the TV station that passed the bad autographs past some of the autograph authenticators a few years ago to show that they were error prone (at best). When will people learn that if they can't authenticate what they buy themselves, they shouldn't buy?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm late to the dance, but if all Jose did was to pass some bad packs by PSA with the intent being to show that they didn't know what they were doing, and never sold any of these packs, he did nothing wrong. In fact, he pointed out a weakness in the hobby. Sounds like the TV station that passed the bad autographs past some of the autograph authenticators a few years ago to show that they were error prone (at best). When will people learn that if they can't authenticate what they buy themselves, they shouldn't buy?

I, too, am late to the dance and I feel the same way you do. Like Jose, I also question Steve's knowledge in this hobby. Don't get me wrong, I truly believe he is a man of great integrity, but integrity and knowledge are two different things.

About 4 years or so ago, I bought a 1975 Topps wax tray from Steve in one of his eBay auctions. I got it for $3XX (I can't remember the exact amount, but it was over $300). I thought I got a really good deal because at the time he was selling them for like $500 (maybe more) on his BBCE website. I was going to leave it sealed, but temptation got the better of me and after a few months I decided to open it. The cellophane around the tray looked good, but when I opened the packs they were clearly resealed. A bunch of EX commons with creases, corner wear and wax/gum stains in on cards that were in the middle of the pack (nowhere near the gum). I wondered at the time how the cellophane could be resealed. Now, I guess I know. That put a bad taste in my mouth about unopened product and I don't collect that garbage anymore.

If none of the bogus packs were sold and nobody was defrauded, then I applaud Jose for his efforts. Thank you, Jose.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Gmrson

So I guess yet another question is did the FBI destroy the packs? Did Jose contact the FBI or someone else? I'm not sure how much the FBI wants people creating fake items to only say "I'm conducting my own investigation". I bet they hear that one alot.

All I know is I would never trust someone trying to create bogus items for any reasong. Why not just approach PSA if they see bad items and offer information to why they think it's fraudulent. That seems more an asset to this hobby than spending time creating fake items.

I have no idea what has happened to the fake packs.

I think one major detail that Jose took issue with is that there there was a long thread on the CU Board that exposed the problem in December 2010. The issue then was that a 1973 Topps Cello pack had a 1974 or 1975 Topps wrapper. See Post #42 on this thread.

In typical fashion when grading problems surface, CU/PSA deleted the thread but I was able to recover it with the Google Cache feature, but now I see those links don't work anymore. See Post #91 on this thread. I'm now curious to know exactly how those Google Cache links were deleted? Did PSA contact Google? I believe Jose's point of doing all of this was to see if they fixed the problem during that two year period and it appears they didn't.

I also just noticed in this thread that at least one bad graded pack was supposedly listed on Ebay two years later in December 2012 (a month before this thread started). But the auction listing did mention the pack was bad. See Post #49 on this thread. It doesn't say exactly who the seller is, but I'm guessing it was Jose.

As I've been saying for years, someone needs to grade the graders, otherwise how else will we know how competent they are?

[pepis]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

I have no idea what has happened to the fake packs.

I think one major detail that Jose took issue with is that there there was a long thread on the CU Board that exposed the problem in December 2010. The issue then was that a 1973 Topps Cello pack had a 1974 or 1975 Topps wrapper. See Post #42 on this thread.

In typical fashion when grading problems surface, CU/PSA deleted the thread but I was able to recover it with the Google Cache feature, but now I see those links don't work anymore. See Post #91 on this thread. I'm now curious to know exactly how those Google Cache links were deleted? Did PSA contact Google? I believe Jose's point of doing all of this was to see if they fixed the problem during that two year period and it appears they didn't.

I also just noticed in this thread that at least one bad graded pack was supposedly listed on Ebay two years later in December 2012 (a month before this thread started). But the auction listing did mention the pack was bad. See Post #49 on this thread. It doesn't say exactly who the seller is, but I'm guessing it was Jose.

As I've been saying for years, someone needs to grade the graders, otherwise how else will we know how competent they are?

Don,
i have a friend with much or the hole thread in a disk in pics
here you have a couple of very key pictures of the thread in which CU member maggyman uncovered the fact that the FAKE schmidt pack came from Steve Hart himself
he authenticated his own bogus pack had it graded by the Co. he works for and sold the fake pack himself and instead of coming clean and owning the mistake he tried
to covered up.

[jhs5120]

I'm fairly certain members of the CU board have purchased plenty of bad packs from Pepis, and many surfaced on eBay. I could be wrong, but there are still several members who are bitter with what Pepis did to them.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I'm fairly certain members of the CU board have purchased plenty of bad packs from Pepis, and many surfaced on eBay. I could be wrong, but there are still several members who are bitter with what Pepis did to them.

Jason, your comment is dumb and ignorant! how can you be fairly certain of something that nobody has any prove! and that is because it didn't happen,
however almost every CU member that collects graded packs does have bogus packs that came from different sources i've seen a few 1978 cellos w/Bench
on top for example and Bench never came on the top section and that is something that can be verified easily and a few members already know know
i'm right but they are to afraid to bring it to light because they would have to admit they learned it from me or my post
thank you for bringing the cu members bushing up
i did see that cpamike said he called me out he is one of the most respected
people on that board but here is something you don't need to be fairly certain
you can be absolutely certain that the rack pack in the picture CPAMIKE sold
about 3 weeks ago to an innocent collector is BOGUS and he knows that
in fact 3 weeks earlier he sold another bogus rack although that one was
graded by GAI so he figure he could hide behind that. see jason the truth
is in net54 and the BS in CU.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by pepis

Jason,
thank you for bringing the cu members bushing up
i did see that cpamike said he called me out he is one of the most respected
people on that board but here is something you don't need to be fairly certain
you can be absolutely certain that the rack pack in the picture CPAMIKE sold
about 3 weeks ago to an innocent collector is BOGUS and he knows that
in fact 3 weeks earlier he sold another bogus rack although that one was
graded by GAI so he figure he could hide behind that. see jason the truth
is in net54 and the BS in CU.

You never addressed my concern (which is very telling to me). Have any of your bad packs entered the market?


According to several who have some of your jobs in their possession, the answer is yes.

You can keep circling the question, but most of us already know the answer.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha Jose....Have any of your bad packs entered the market??

By the way I'm FBI...(From Big Island) Dave.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by pepis

Jason,
thank you for bringing the cu members bushing up
i did see that cpamike said he called me out he is one of the most respected
people on that board but here is something you don't need to be fairly certain
you can be absolutely certain that the rack pack in the picture CPAMIKE sold
about 3 weeks ago to an innocent collector is BOGUS and he knows that
in fact 3 weeks earlier he sold another bogus rack although that one was
graded by GAI so he figure he could hide behind that. see jason the truth
is in net54 and the BS in CU.

Jose, you're going to have to prove that CPAMike knew those packs were bad before you go throwing out accusations like that. Not cool.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Jose has "surfaced" on the post war side.

[hamilton989]

Hi,

I am new to this forum but not new to this issue at all. I was recently made aware of the allegations (very confusing) surrounding the dealer and have some insight to add. As I am (or was) an avid collector of unopened material with stars showing, I have dealt with Jose one time in the past. You can see my pack collection at http://thehistorykids.net/packs

Anyhow, a couple of things:
1.) The very same people the guy is throwing under the bus now vigorously defended him when I brought up suspicion about him in a different forum in 2011.
2.) He is presenting himself as some kind of crusader for the integrity of this sub-hobby. Kool-aid anyone?
3.) Below is what I brought up on the other forum and his response back in 2011.

Monday December 19, 2011 4:00 PM

Thanks everyone for welcoming into the forum. A couple of people have asked about my experiences with the ebay dealer E******, and although I have no intention of disparaging anyone or any dealer here on this forum, I will relay one experience I had with him which led me to leave him negative feedback on ebay:

A couple of years ago, he auctioned off a 1983 fleer rack pack that had Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn showing on the front. I won the auction, paid him immediately and thought he would send the rack promptly. Two or so days later, he refunded my money and reported to ebay that the pack was damaged in handling. In thinking to myself how someone could have damaged a 1983 fleer pack when packaging it up, I came to the conclusion that he didn't want ME to buy it. This particular dealer subsequently banned me from all of his auctions. My guess is that he knew I could tell a fake pack from a real pack and he was hesitant in sending me the fake. I left him negative feedback. Confirming my suspicions, after the 90 day period where I could no longer submit any formal complaints, and at the time, when images would be deleted from ebay's database, the very same rack pack came up for auction from him again. So, it really wasn't damaged in "handling," he was hesitant to sell it to me. This combined with his seemingly endless supply of unbelievable unopened material including star racks and cellos from every year imaginable has led me to believe he sells inauthentic stuff.

This is only my opinion based on my limited experiences with him. I have never actually received unopened material from him. It is very likely he sells legitimate stuff as well, I guess. I will remove the line on my page that mentions him, as I never intended this topic to be brought up here.

Pepis e-mail to me:

Hello Greg,
when i went to get the pack out of the cabinet
in my office, it was gone! stolen! probably
by some youg kid friend of the family i think,
i hoping to get it back, but is taking me some time
to investigate, so, for now i have to give you
a refund on it, i have a very similar pack listed
right now (Gwynn/Sandberg graded 9.5 also)
item # 250172307764
if you by chance happen to like it, i would be
happy to exchange it, i apologize for the
inconvenience, although the loser here is me.
Jose

4.) The guy's (the pepis guy) response in the forum when I called him out

Unfortunately, this has been a feud that has gone on for four years. I have posted the original email below showing in detail how your recount of the story is incorrect. The pack was stolen by my sons friend. I am an honest, truthful man. I have a reputation on e-bay and well before the internet was invented of dealing honestly and being a straight shooter. I have been in the card business for over 40 years. You can ask any of my customers how much I am respected in the industry. I would appreciate if in the future you stick to the truth, so I don't have to present information to prove my credibility against your erroneous accusations. I am sorry that you have not gotten over a situation 4 years old, that was out of my control. Even though, as a man who respects customer service, I tried to make amends when the incident happened. You called me a liar then, which was incorrect, and now you post lies about me on a forum. That is not what a man does.