Increcible prices for PWCC auctions

[calvindog]

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

[bobbyw8469]

When a PSA 6 sells for as much, if not more than a PSA 8, it is mind boggling to me as well. Just a shred of research and a little common sense will tell you what a fair market price for a particular item is. When the above scenario happens though, it definitely smells fishy to me. This hobby has so many scenarios and sub-scenarios though - it would blow your mind if you knew everything that went on. I blame the almighty dollar....

[calvindog]

You "blame the almighty dollar?" How about blaming the guy who was responsible for shill bidding?

[bobbyw8469]

For the card that I saw, the shill bid stopped at $33. There were still two other "sensible" bidders who bid it up past the PSA 8 level, totally ignoring the big coke spill stain on the back of the card.

[bobbyw8469]

You "blame the almighty dollar?" How about blaming the guy who was responsible for shill bidding?

And CalvinDog....not to be flippant or anything, but what do you think the shill bidder's motivation is? World peace??

[calvindog]

Bobby, I'm more about blaming the shooter, not the gun. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

Careful Jeffrey you will get yourself banned!!

[CW]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, at least we can narrow down the guilty party to the auction house.

I would think the auction house would have a lot more to lose should they win the item themselves and then have to relist it, than they would have to gain from a few extra dollars commission by bidding an item up to $400.

Also, if the auction house were doing the actual shill bidding here, and they have a habit of doing so, wouldn't they have specific accounts that don't have 100% bid activity with PWCC, so that this wouldn't seem like such "obvious" shill bidding?

I am not naive enough to think shill bidding and scan manipulations do not occur with regularity in this hobby. I just feel that now we've learned that the consignor (Gary) did not do the shill bidding on the postcard w/ Ty Cobb, this may just be a case of another collector driving the price up with a snipe.

[Seattle799]

Originally Posted by CW

Also, if the auction house were doing the actual shill bidding here, and they have a habit of doing so, wouldn't they have specific accounts that don't have 100% bid activity with PWCC, so that this wouldn't seem like such "obvious" shill bidding?

Not necessarily... if ebay isn't going to do anything about it, why bother trying to make it look less obvious

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CW

I just feel that now we've learned that the consignor (Gary) did not do the shill bidding on the postcard w/ Ty Cobb, this may just be a case of another collector driving the price up with a snipe.

Again, the issue is not with the snipe -- it is with the fact that the underbidder (and many underbidders in PWCC auctions) is only bidding in PWCC auctions.

[DeanH3]

I agree with Chuck. It would be hard to believe that AH's would be dumb enough to leave such an obvious trail if they were indeed shilling their own auctions. But then again, "dumber" things have happened.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sigh.

[t206fix]

I wonder how much VCP has to do with these prices. Now I like VCP, and use it once in awhile. But once, when I was thinking about buying a SGC W511 Babe Ruth card, I checked VCP and the average price was around $300, and the card was going for about this. So I normally don't do this, but I checked the last sale of the card, and guess what - it was being sold by the same exact seller with matching sgc# for $331, which artificially pushed the price up (according to VCP) due to this previous "auction". So I am not sure if someone returned the cards or what, but the data was still registering on VCP, hence the higher price (I don't use VCP currently so I'm not sure what it would have been if this card did not "sell" previously for $300+).

Since then, this same seller has sold 2 more of the same card/different numbers. So if sellers knew how to play the game right, you simply drive up the "sold" price and make sure it registers with VCP, and then after that, the other cards you have in the same grade are worth that much. With out this bump, let's say that the VCP card is only worth $175, then all the rest of these cards will sell around that price since the last one sold was 2006 or so -

Just my two-cent conspiracy theory -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item589ba08f19

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item589d73a32e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-Bl...item589ecddd1c


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-1-...item53f7c76390

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

I agree with Chuck. It would be hard to believe that AH's would be dumb enough to leave such an obvious trail if they were indeed shilling their own auctions. But then again, "dumber" things have happened.

Ask Mastro and Allen about leaving an obvious trail of evidence on their fraud....

[glchen]

I contacted PWCC who provided me with the underbidder for the Exhibits Cobb auction (which I already sent to Jeff). If anyone else wants the ebay id, please let me know. Thanks.

[scotgreb]

[Peter_Spaeth]

World record shattered by 50 percent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Topps-S...p2047675.l2557