Who was better, who would you take, Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays?

[Tanman7baseball]

Originally Posted by AMBST95

You can have all of the talent in the world, but if you can't harness it and actually use it, it's pointless. Willie Mays wins this one. The question you pose isn't who had the most talent, but who was better. Mays was better than Mantle as his career numbers clearly show.

Beautifully said. I know too many ballplayers in college and pro ball that had all the talent in the world but threw it away because of drugs, alcohol, and/or lack of determination... But I have to say if the Commerce Comet stayed healthy and had an extra an extra 3,000 plate appearances he would of done some unbelievable things. Mantle had a lot of freak accidents that hindered his career dramatically. Mickey Mantle wins my vote because I'm bias

[Tanman7baseball]

WILLIE MAYS
Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)
Black Ink Batting - 57 (21), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink Batting - 337 (8), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 376 (5), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 76 (3), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS Center Field (1st), 156.1 career WAR/73.6 7yr-peak WAR/114.8 JAWS
Average HOF CF (out of 18) = 70.5 career WAR/44.1 7yr-peak WAR/57.3 JAWS

VS.

MICKEY MANTLE
Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)
Black Ink Batting - 62 (15), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink Batting - 272 (17), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 300 (15), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 65 (22), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS Center Field (4th), 109.7 career WAR/64.8 7yr-peak WAR/87.2 JAWS
Average HOF CF (out of 18) = 70.5 career WAR/44.1 7yr-peak WAR/57.3 JAWS

(JAWS is what I go off of)

[travrosty]

Mickey mantle was one of the fastest players to ever play major league baseball.

[Mark]

Mays and it's not all that close. His WARP # is so high because he was hitting like a demon against National League pitching during the 1960's.

[travrosty]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin...e_mays_tur.php

some comparisons to chew on.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by travrosty

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin...e_mays_tur.php

some comparisons to chew on.

I think the point that Willie's stature grows in part because of people's disgust of Barry Bonds is ridiculous. Mays has been revered and accepted as one of the greatest ever for decades. If anyone has gotten a public boost due to Bonds negative press, its Aaron, though Aaron absolutely deserves all (and much more) credit that he gets.

I think it is also silly that the author conveniently choses the 9 seasons Mantle was at his "physical peak" for comparison with Mays. Unfortunately those 9 seasons happen to exclude Mays' 1965 MVP season. This was possibly his best year ever, one in which he hit 52 HRs in a very tough HR ballpark, against guys like Drysdale/Koufax/Gibson/Bunning/etc. Seems like a pretty skewed comparison when you exclude a players' best year.

It also starts in 1954, basically Mays' 2nd season (following nearly 2 years military service). Mays did win the MVP and a WS in his 2nd full season, so it clearly didn't take him long to acclimate to the ML and become a top 3-5 player. I suspect however that the author chose these years not simply because both players were at their "physical peak", but mostly because they are clearly the years when Mantle was at peak production. If "physical peak" is the key, then why not start right in 1951 before Mantle's first major knee injury in that year's WS? Why exclude Mantle's healthy 1951/1952/1953 seasons? They were respectable seasons and he got better each year, eventually progressing into player he'd become. Probably because Mantle didn't begin producing at an MVP caliber until 1955. Per my earlier post, if you want to compare their peak production, just take Mantle's 1955-1962 and Mays' 1954-1965 average seasons. They're nearly dead on, Mantle beats him in OPS.. Mays steals more bases and does a whole lot more in CF.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mantle. My dad grew up in Oklahoma, watched him play minor league ball and from the time I was about 6, told me stories about about how amazing an athlete he was before his knees went on him. I also think at peak production, he compares well with Mays... but this article uses very one sided tactics to make its point.

[Fred]

Mays.