Little Red Riding Hood & Her Babe Ruth Signed 700th Homerun Day Ticket

[thecatspajamas]

Anyone have another Tigers ticket from 1933 or 1935 to compare? Matt showed another from 1934 which had the same base price and tax. I can't quite make out the details on the 1930's ticket lot that has been posted, which included years other than 1934, but even with all the squinting I've done looking at the low-res image that Worthpoint retains, it looks to me like only 1934 tickets were pictured in that one shot.

[shelly]

Promise this is the last question. Could that ticket without a stamp on it be from another year other than 1934, Scott yes or no. Any one else yes or no. If no that is it. No or yes nothing more.
I am now beeing mean and nasty. I am also very tired. At my age the only thing you have to remember is the seat up or down. You guys have no idea how many times I called for help

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

Promise this is the last question. Could that ticket without a stamp on it be from another year other than 1934, Scott yes or no. Any one else yes or no. If no that is it. No or yes nothing more.
I am now beeing mean and nasty. I am also very tired. At my age the only thing you have to remember is the seat up or down. You guys have no idea how many times I called for help

shelly, the buyer accepted it as 1934, if it wasn't, there doesnt seem to be a way to know 10000%. either way it doesnt prove or disprove the autograph.

#1 rule for authenticators is make sure the item being signed was available during the lifetime of the signer, it was.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by travrosty

shelly, the buyer accepted it as 1934, if it wasn't, there doesnt seem to be a way to know 10000%. either way it doesnt prove or disprove the autograph.

#1 rule for authenticators is make sure the item being signed was available during the lifetime of the signer, it was.

Correct Travis!

[canjond]

Also interesting to note that every one of those tickets posted appears to be in nice "sharp" condition, at least as they appear on my iPad screen. That, too me, debunks the "ticket looks too nice to be authentic" argument.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by canjond

Also interesting to note that every one of those tickets posted appears to be in nice "sharp" condition, at least as they appear on my iPad screen. That, too me, debunks the "ticket looks too nice to be authentic" argument.

That was never the case. Lots of older baseball tickets have survived in terrific shape with sharp corners through the years. It all has to do with the randomness of the patron that attended the game.

Most patrons threw ticket stubs away, and did not save them. It stands to reason that the patron that did "save" the ticket stub would be more likely to take care of them since they cared enough to even hang on to them in the first place.

Damage to older tickets usually is exhibited on the back of the ticket. Many times, the older stubs that survived were glued into scrapbooks or scorebooks. If they are not removed carefully, this is when back damage or paper loss occurs to the ticket. Very common, BTW...

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Damage to older tickets usually is exhibited on the back of the ticket. Many times, the older stubs that survived were glued into scrapbooks or scorebooks.

And she certainly wouldn't be gluing a ticket stub in a scrapbook that had a Babe Ruth signature on the back, if that was her original intentions when she left the game.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Anyone have another Tigers ticket from 1933 or 1935 to compare? Matt showed another from 1934 which had the same base price and tax. I can't quite make out the details on the 1930's ticket lot that has been posted, which included years other than 1934, but even with all the squinting I've done looking at the low-res image that Worthpoint retains, it looks to me like only 1934 tickets were pictured in that one shot.

Well, if the date stamp is authentic, they were on the road in 1932, 1933, 1935 and 1936 on that date.

[thecatspajamas]

Found a few others. These are (in order) from 1932, 1933 (lower right ticket in the group), 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943. To based on the price, 1937 is out. 1932 looks to be a different style of ticket (horizontal orientation rather than vertical), though the one I show is not an "emergency ticket," so would it be possible for those to have a different layout? I'm not sure, but even so, that leaves a possibility of 1933-36, 1938-41, and 1943 based just on the price. (I couldn't find an example for 1942). And to my eye, the "style" of ticket is very similar from 1933-43, so I could easily see them using the same "emergency tickets" for multiple years (ruling out 1937 and 1942 due to price differences). Did they actually do this? I have no idea. I'm just trying to help cover all the bases in what way I can.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Found a few others. These are (in order) from 1932, 1933 (lower right ticket in the group), 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943. To based on the price, 1937 is out. 1932 looks to be a different style of ticket (horizontal orientation rather than vertical), though the one I show is not an "emergency ticket," so would it be possible for those to have a different layout? I'm not sure, but even so, that leaves a possibility of 1933-36, 1938-41, and 1943 based just on the price. (I couldn't find an example for 1942). And to my eye, the "style" of ticket is very similar from 1933-43, so I could easily see them using the same "emergency tickets" for multiple years (ruling out 1937 and 1942 due to price differences). Did they actually do this? I have no idea. I'm just trying to help cover all the bases in what way I can.

Excellent detective work, Lance and Dave!

Please also note the following facts and observations:

1) The 1932 Tigers ticket is from the LEFT side of the ticket, not the right side. Tigers tickets from every one of these years was horizontal on the left and vertical on the right. The vertical stub is the correct portion of the stub that was to be given to the patron, thus they are called "patron's stubs"

2) The left side of the ticket is what is referred to in the ticket collecting hobby as an "usher's stub". This is the portion of the ticket that the ticket taker was to deposit in the ticket box as the patron entered the stadium. Occasionally (rarely) a ticket taker would hand the patron the wrong side of the stub. I've always taken this to be the work of an inexperienced or new ticket taker. Usher ticket stubs like these show up in the hobby, but only about 5% of the time. One notable exception to this would be St. Louis Cardinals tickets from the 1970's and 1980's. The Cards had a habit of reselling usher's stub tickets to historic games such as Bob Forsch's 2nd no-hitter and Steve Carlton's 300th win. There are LOTS of usher's stub tickets to these games out there as a result, FWIW.

3) The difference in ticket price noted by Lance, $1.40 vs. $1.60 does NOT eliminate Tigers tickets from the year 1937. This is merely a difference in ticket price because of seat location. Lower deck 1st tier box seats sold for a premium, $1.60, during this era as opposed to the standard $1.40 for upper reserved seats or lower deck reserved seats. This is common at all stadiums.

4) The Tigers kept their seat prices and ticket stock appearance steady for MANY years (perhaps 10+ years), which makes solving this puzzle challenging.

5) Please note that by 1945 Tigers tickets were $1.50 for upper reserved seats and $1.80 for lower reserved seats.

6) The "military green" ticket color exhibited by the "Ruth 700" ticket was common for many years at Briggs Stadium (Tiger Stadium). I recall seeing tickets of this color as late as 1952 or so.

7) The ticket could possibly be from 1939 or 1941, because the Tigers did play at Briggs Stadium on July 13th and the ticket prices were most likely the same.
When I re-checked Dave's work about the Tigers playing out of town for several of these years he is correct.

8) I am beginning to believe that the ticket is most likely from 1934 and Ruth's 700 game. Finding a date stamp that is, to my eye, identical to the other Emergency tickets in the Tigers 1934 lot that sold on eBay, would be extremely challenging. Date stamps are a bit like typewriters; they each have their own unique font and size since different companies manufactured them. The stamp was applied at the same angle on the "Ruth 700" ticket as it was to the other Emergency tickets from the Yankees series surrounding 700 in 1934. Briggs Stadium issued all of their tickets from one very small ticket booth at the corner of the stadium. It's very likely that one ticket office employee was in charge of all stamping of tickets during this period of time. Same angle of stamping, same date stamp used in application of the stamp. The ink applied to the 700 ticket appears to be old, not recent, FWIW.

If the Babe Ruth signature holds up under scrutiny of the Babe Ruth sig experts, I would now not exclude this ticket as possibly being from the Ruth 700 game.
Just my 2 cents...

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Excellent detective work, Lance and Dave!

Please also note the following facts and observations:

1) The 1932 Tigers ticket is from the LEFT side of the ticket, not the right side. Tigers tickets from every one of these years was horizontal on the left and vertical on the right. The vertical stub is the correct portion of the stub that was to be given to the patron, thus they are called "patron's stubs"

2) The left side of the ticket is what is referred to in the ticket collecting hobby as an "usher's stub". This is the portion of the ticket that the ticket taker was to deposit in the ticket box as the patron entered the stadium. Occasionally (rarely) a ticket taker would hand the patron the wrong side of the stub. I've always taken this to be the work of an inexperienced or new ticket taker. Usher ticket stubs like these show up in the hobby, but only about 5% of the time. One notable exception to this would be St. Louis Cardinals tickets from the 1970's and 1980's. The Cards had a habit of reselling usher's stub tickets to historic games such as Bob Forsch's 2nd no-hitter and Steve Carlton's 300th win. There are LOTS of usher's stub tickets to these games out there as a result, FWIW.

3) The difference in ticket price noted by Lance, $1.40 vs. $1.60 does NOT eliminate Tigers tickets from the year 1937. This is merely a difference in ticket price because of seat location. Lower deck 1st tier box seats sold for a premium, $1.60, during this era as opposed to the standard $1.40 for upper reserved seats or lower deck reserved seats. This is common at all stadiums.

4) The Tigers kept their seat prices and ticket stock appearance steady for MANY years (perhaps 10+ years), which makes solving this puzzle challenging.

5) Please note that by 1945 Tigers tickets were $1.50 for upper reserved seats and $1.80 for lower reserved seats.

6) The "military green" ticket color exhibited by the "Ruth 700" ticket was common for many years at Briggs Stadium (Tiger Stadium). I recall seeing tickets of this color as late as 1952 or so.

7) The ticket could possibly be from 1939 or 1941, because the Tigers did play at Briggs Stadium on July 13th and the ticket prices were most likely the same.
When I re-checked Dave's work about the Tigers playing out of town for several of these years he is correct.

8) I am beginning to believe that the ticket is most likely from 1934 and Ruth's 700 game. Finding a date stamp that is, to my eye, identical to the other Emergency tickets in the Tigers 1934 lot that sold on eBay, would be extremely challenging. Date stamps are a bit like typewriters; they each have their own unique font and size since different companies manufactured them. The stamp was applied at the same angle on the "Ruth 700" ticket as it was to the other Emergency tickets from the Yankees series surrounding 700 in 1934. Briggs Stadium issued all of their tickets from one very small ticket booth at the corner of the stadium. It's very likely that one ticket office employee was in charge of all stamping of tickets during this period of time. Same angle of stamping, same date stamp used in application of the stamp. The ink applied to the 700 ticket appears to be old, not recent, FWIW.

If the Babe Ruth signature holds up under scrutiny of the Babe Ruth sig experts, I would now not exclude this ticket as possibly being from the Ruth 700 game.
Just my 2 cents...

All good information, and Scott's attention to and evaluation of the details is much appreciated. I've definitely learned a thing or two (or three) about tickets as a result of this thread, (which is more of an education than I expected going into it ). I always appreciate your breakdowns of the information at hand, Scott, as opposed to my "lookee here what I found!"