It's now official - Mastro trimmed hisT206 Wagner

[glynparson]

Qualifiers post. If not for the qualifier the card would be a 3 at best. Several examples in this neighborhood. If this were not as Wagner but say a 1954 aaron it would probably sell for less than a 3. The grade of a card is effected by imperfections to disregard them is laughable in my opinion.

[RCMcKenzie]

I know that when I first got back into the hobby in the late 90's early 2000's everyone loved them some Mastro and hated Broadway Rick on the message boards, Now, you guys want to crucify Mastro. We want Barabus or Broadway Rick. It's just a hobby, or should be just a hobby.

[drc]

I love everyone. My analyst said I had to.

"What about Hitler," I said, "Do I have to love Hitler?"
"Hitler's dead," she said.
"What about Travis Bickle? Do I have to love Travis Bickle?"
"That's a character from a movie. He's not a real person. Remember what I said about the people in movies? Remember we talked about that last session?"
"Oh yeah, I forgot . . . Maybe you'd better explain it to me again."

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I don't understand the I don't care aboutQualifiers post. If not for the qualifier the card would be a 3 at best. Several examples in this neighborhood. If this were not as Wagner but say a 1954 aaron it would probably sell for less than a 3. The grade of a card is effected by imperfections to disregard them is laughable in my opinion.

I don't care about qualifiers. What is hard to understand?

I have never cared about cards that are centered or not centered (If anything I prefer the non centered cards). I have posted about this on other threads, it isn't just regarding the Wagner. I also know I am in the minority, but every one has preferences in this hobby and factory caused flaws don't bother me. It is the after factory flaws that I want to be graded.

[glynparson]

So what is do they bother you or not? You say one thing than say another? Sorry but trying to pretend flaws dont matter in value is so far from fact that it makes me laugh. Also the fact is this card is not a 5, so if there were no qualifier this would be a 3 at best, probably worse to pretend otherwise is laughable, so you cant try and say this is the highest graded because your wrong. How can you pretend a flaw is irrelevant to value? The facts are flaws are how cards are graded if this card was in fact an ex card the previous owner would have had it crossed to SGC, it was not an EX card so was therefore sold in the holder it was. Im not sure some understand qualifiers its not like they mean the card is this grade because of this flaw it means the card would be this grade but has one such major flaw that it is far worse than the assigned number but has most of the qualities of said grade.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I find it interesting that a while back in the Black Swamp find, PSA realized they mislabeled the wrong Wagner cards and aggressively fixed the problem before any sale was made. See this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=153481

Now that a indisputably trimmed, multi-million dollar card has been sold and their liability is now enormous, PSA's silence is deafening.

If you look at PSA's Sport Collecting Glossary, here's what they have for "trimmed"


A card that has been altered by cutting or shaving the edges. The most obvious reason for this is to improve the condition of corners, by removing the worn areas. Cards are also trimmed to correct centering problems. Cards that have been trimmed have very little value.

See this link:

http://www.psacard.com/Resources/Lingo/T


I also now understand the current owner doesn't even seemed bothered about the card being trimmed.

This hobby (or what ever it is) never ceases to amaze me.

[teetwoohsix]

Many collectors collect trimmed "A" cards because they can buy a card that looks like an 8 for way cheaper than what an actual 8 would cost.

How many collectors would buy a trimmed card graded an 8, knowing for a fact it was trimmed (so technically it's an "A") for 8 money?

If the owner doesn't care, and is just going to keep it, no problem there. I just don't see it retaining the price paid just because of the story behind it. Beautiful card, no doubt. But Mastro said he trimmed it. It's no longer a mystery.

Just my opinion-

Sincerely, clayton

[GoldenAge50s]

Late breaking news:

Mastro's wife has now admitted she trimmed her wagner a couple of times, too.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Many collectors collect trimmed "A" cards because they can buy a card that looks like an 8 for way cheaper than what an actual 8 would cost.

How many collectors would buy a trimmed card graded an 8, knowing for a fact it was trimmed (so technically it's an "A") for 8 money?

If the owner doesn't care, and is just going to keep it, no problem there. I just don't see it retaining the price paid just because of the story behind it. Beautiful card, no doubt. But Mastro said he trimmed it. It's no longer a mystery.

Just my opinion-

Sincerely, clayton

Clayton,

Several years ago, my answer would have been none or next to none, but since then I've learned - particularly the ones of the PSA registry ilk: "the label lovers", my answer is a significant number of people. There are people who are well aware that they bought a significant number of doctored cards and they too seem unphased about it. I know it's twisted beyond any rational comprehension, but these people do exist and they impact the market significantly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Every prior purchaser sold it at a hefty profit. No damages, no claim. They benefited from the fraud on the back end.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Clayton,

Several years ago, my answer would have been none or next to none, but since then I've learned - particularly the ones of the PSA registry ilk: "the label lovers", my answer is a significant number of people. There are people who are well aware that they bought a significant number of doctored cards and they too seem unphased about it. I know it's twisted beyond any rational comprehension, but these people do exist and they impact the market significantly.

I guess this would only make any kind of sense to people in competition with each other. It would be hard for me to look at a high grade card in my collection and know it's really a trimmed card that I extremely overpaid for. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to collect cards, but I do think it's wrong if a TPG is giving cards extremely high grades knowing they are trimmed- like the 8 Wagner.

Sincerely, Clayton