Babe Ruth?

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't see what the issue is at this point.

Travis made a fool of Chris Williams and the rest of the doubters.

Both the consignor and Huggins & Scott have gone above and beyond to answer questions and work to address any authenticity concerns, including getting second opinions and speaking directly with Chris Williams.

I'd love to see definitive evidence that the signature is bad, but it seems clear that none is forthcoming.

It seems to me that Chris Williams and is the one that feels that he owes nothing to the hobby, as he apparently feels that protecting the buyer from this "forgery" is not something he's willing to do.

H&S has done plenty in this case.

+1 If the consignor's story is true (and his prompt responses to all questions in this thread lead me to believe it is) then I guess the only definitive proof that the auto is a fake would be if someone could produce an image of this exact ticket stub unsigned from an earlier auction or similar transaction.

[shelly]

Travis made fools of the people that believe it is not authentic. How did he do that by showing autographs side by side. Then stating and opinion. Like I said at the start. You either believe its authentic or not. No one on this site is a fool. The might be overly zealous but not fools.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by shelly

Travis made fools of the people that believe it is not authentic. How did he do that by showing autographs side by side. Then stating and opinion. Like I said at the start. You either believe its authentic or not. No one on this site is a fool. The might be overly zealous but not fools.

Because the "evidence" that was supposed to be used to prove the ticket to be inauthentic was shown by Travis to be horsecrap and not related at all to the autograph on the ticket.

Its not an opinion to say that there are numerous differences between the ticket auto and the auto that was supposedly created by the same forger.

[shelly]

I know of very few people that even mentioned the second picture if any. I was only talking about the first Ruth on the ticket. Travis put the other one side by side. Does that make the people who might think the ticket is bad fools? Not only that if someone buys something and it is not authentic does that make them fools as well?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by shelly

Not only that if someone buys something and it is not authentic does that make them fools as well?

Your buddy Chris seems to think so, and has stated just that sentiment here, and on YouTube, many, many times.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by shelly

I know of very few people that even mentioned the second picture if any. I was only talking about the first Ruth on the ticket. Travis put the other one side by side. Does that make the people who might think the ticket is bad fools? Not only that if someone buys something and it is not authentic does that make them fools as well?

The "evidence" that Chris had was bogus in the context in which it was shown. Travis pointed that out.

I think there's a difference between being a fool and being made a fool of, personally.

[shelly]

I think that was a foolish question.

[cubsfan-budman]

you're right. edited and sorry.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

When people bought fake stuff from you, did you think they were fools?

Excellent question!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I think there's a difference between being a fool and being made a fool of, personally.

There certainly is.

Although sometimes--and this thread and its OP come to mind--one can be both.

[Runscott]

This entire thread should be one of our autograph sub-forum 'exemplar threads'.

I am enjoying it, but it's definitely got all the characteristics that we are known for, plus some bonuses.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

I know of very few people that even mentioned the second picture if any. I was only talking about the first Ruth on the ticket. Travis put the other one side by side. Does that make the people who might think the ticket is bad fools? Not only that if someone buys something and it is not authentic does that make them fools as well?

if someone thinks the autograph on the ticket is good or bad, thats their opinion.

chris mentioned the second picture, thats the point, where the heck is he?

[David Atkatz]

He's out doin' his legwork.

[cardinalcollector]

You know, personally I am glad to see an AH come on here to defend themselves. Most of the times they don't, they probably think they have nothing to gain, and are probably right about that. Whatever they respond with, they usually get hit with more questions, technicalities, and complaints from a transaction gone bad with an individual 10 years ago.

Kit Young came on here to clarify some question years ago and was torched by a guy who had a bad transaction with him 20 years ago! Haven't heard from him since.

Troy from SACO was pounded mercilessly by folks when auctioning his CDV recently. He went WAY above and beyond in my opinion to answer questions, and for some, it just wasn't good enough.

I have never dealt with H&S, but everything I've heard about them has been positive.

It seems that emotions run so high that common sense and civility go out the window.

Now if the AH is screwing people and you can prove it (Mastro) go get 'em, just be able to prove it. I think a lot more AHs would post here if they didn't fear exactly what is happening to H&S here.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

+1 If the consignor's story is true (and his prompt responses to all questions in this thread lead me to believe it is) then I guess the only definitive proof that the auto is a fake would be if someone could produce an image of this exact ticket stub unsigned from an earlier auction or similar transaction.

+1