The PSA8 Wagner... I don't get it.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by sylbry

This card differs from other trimmed cards being that it was only cut once, as intended in the card’s production process (albeit at a later date). Trimmed cards are cut twice. The 2nd cut would be beyond the original production process for that card. Therefore the card has been altered from its final production form. The PSA8 was never completed, so how can it be altered?

From what I understand it was cut from a sheet. Then bought and recut again to make it look nicer. So by your thinking the first cut would be the "finishing" job. The second cut was a deceiving cut to make it look better. The card is tainted by the fact that it was altered for deceitful purposes. The card is still the best visual aesthetic card, but it is considered altered thus making the two 5s the best non altered Wagner cards in the hobby.

The Wagner 8 should be graded A just like the brother card of Plank off the same sheet.

[packs]

Wait so when it was doctored a second time, it had alrady been cut from the sheet? Or was it cut from the sheet and then cut again by the same person?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

From what I understand it was cut from a sheet. Then bought and recut again to make it look nicer. So by your thinking the first cut would be the "finishing" job. The second cut was a deceiving cut to make it look better. The card is tainted by the fact that it was altered for deceitful purposes. The card is still the best visual aesthetic card, but it is considered altered thus making the two 5s the best non altered Wagner cards in the hobby.

The Wagner 8 should be graded A just like the brother card of Plank off the same sheet.

I don't think the psa8 is the best wags. I don't like trimmed cards at all! I won't even keep a trimmed common around long. I would take a 5 (untrimmed) anyday. Also a couple of the "raw" wags that are about, (here and there). are much nicer. Dave

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I don't think the psa8 is the best wags. I don't like trimmed cards at all! I won't even keep a trimmed common around long. I would take a 5 (untrimmed) anyday. Also a couple of the "raw" wags that are about, (here and there). are much nicer. Dave

X 2

The best Wagner are the two PSA 5 example.
I hate card from uncut sheet ....These cards is not cards.... these cards are ' piece of a poster of a cards set'
I prefer a Beater over a trimmed card or a uncutt sheet card.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

X 2

The best Wagner are the two PSA 5 example.
I hate card from uncut sheet ....These cards is not cards.... these cards are ' piece of a poster of a cards set'
I prefer a Beater over a trimmed card or a uncutt sheet card.

My sentiments exactly Nelson.....haven't seen you post in a short while. Where have you been hiding? Dave.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

My sentiments exactly Nelson.....haven't seen you post in a short while. Where have you been hiding? Dave.

Hi David. Yep i don t post a lot in the past weeks. I take a little brake of my
T206 set building, i don t want be bored about that. I bought a couple hockey HOF rookie cards in the last weeks for my collection.
But i still continue to come on the board and read each day .

[Cardboard Junkie]

Not to derail this very interesting thread, but Nelson, HOW could you ever be bored with that Plank in your pocket? Dave.

[g_vezina_c55]

LOL i am not bored... i don t want to be bored in the futur ehehe, so i collect slowly and i take brake.
I am a verry enthusiast guy and when i do a Hobby , like you probably know, i' ll do it at 100 MPH So i try to be a moderate guy

I always enjoy look at the Plank with the Magie and the Demmitt.

I will perhaps make new T206 purchase at the shriners show next week.

[Jacklitsch]

I'd like to think my Wags came out of a pack of smokes not off the scrap pile.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

I'd like to think my Wags came out of a pack of smokes not off the scrap pile.

X 2 for my plank... and i really enjoy when i think about who is the kid who own my plank before Mr Carter and put it in his bike wheel spoke LOL

[sylbry]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

I'd like to think my Wags came out of a pack of smokes not off the scrap pile.

Does it matter? The Wagner is the Wagner.

So if a factory employee took one home instead of inserting it in the pack it isn't a real Wagner?

Back to a car example, a gifted Ferrari it isn't as good as a Ferrari bought from a dealership because it didn't arrive via it's intended method of distribution?

[boneheadandrube]

Adam:

"Compare this to other collectibles. Say a Shelby Cobra left the factory without an interior. No one in their right mind would say the car is better off not having an interior than if someone installed an interior at a later date. Or say Antonio Stradivari sold a violin without string. No one would be scolded for putting strings on something that originally didn’t. Point is other collectibles have more value in their intended final form, regardless of who does it."

"That is 100% incorrect. An original factory condition collectible always is worth more than a restored or after-market completed version that appears to be in the same condition. "
--------------
I understand what you are saying, but this is not 100% correct for vintage cars. Most high dollar vintage Ferrari's and other foreign exotics undergo full body-off restorations to acheive the higher prices. You wouldn't want an original 1950's paint job on any type of car either...plus you have to get them running, and you wouldn't drive it with original brakes... does that qualify as altering?

Again I get your point, but 100% incorrect is a little strong...
GB

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Adam:

"Compare this to other collectibles. Say a Shelby Cobra left the factory without an interior. No one in their right mind would say the car is better off not having an interior than if someone installed an interior at a later date. Or say Antonio Stradivari sold a violin without string. No one would be scolded for putting strings on something that originally didn’t. Point is other collectibles have more value in their intended final form, regardless of who does it."

"That is 100% incorrect. An original factory condition collectible always is worth more than a restored or after-market completed version that appears to be in the same condition. "
--------------
I understand what you are saying, but this is not 100% correct for vintage cars. Most high dollar vintage Ferrari's and other foreign exotics undergo full body-off restorations to acheive the higher prices. You wouldn't want an original 1950's paint job on any type of car either...plus you have to get them running, and you wouldn't drive it with original brakes... does that qualify as altering?

Again I get your point, but 100% incorrect is a little strong...
GB

i collected american muscle car since 10 years now... and the most valuable car is the unrestored survivor car !
what is more valuable :
a 1971 plymouth hemi 'cuda convertible fully restored - RE-body
OR
a survivor 'cuda with original paint untouched with scratch and ding on the paint ?

i choose all day long the survivor car.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

i collected american muscle car since 10 years now... and the most valuable car is the unrestored survivor car !
what is more valuable :
a 1971 plymouth hemi 'cuda convertible fully restored - RE-body
OR
a survivor 'cuda with original paint untouched with scratch and ding on the paint ?

i choose all day long the survivor car.

With respect, when they simply don't exist in original "untouched condition" (its a friggen car) they get restored to achieve big money...not "roached out", not "beater condition"...but normal use as they were designed to be used, they still need to be restored to some extent to fetch the higher value:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/06...sive-ferraris/

GB

[sportscollector]

I think the hobby should dump that wagner as the face of the hobby and replace it with either the highest grade Baltimore news babe ruth or one of the PSA 10 1952 topps mickey mantle's I bet if one of the 3 PSA 10 mantles were ever to hit the auction block it would go for close to 3 million

[Tomman1961]

I like your post as it is a a cut card from a poster. I can cut my 1967 Seaver Rookie from my uncut sheet and tell you it was graded a "10". Or my Terry Bradshaw rookie in the same manner.