Help Needed regarding bad Babe Ruth auto

[travrosty]

as it stands now, if I'm looking to resell a high end auto, I need it to be certed by JSA or PSA. And despite their lack of customer service, there doesn't appear to be any other alternative.




that's not true, there are good ways to sell it without authentication from the big two. there are alternatives. me and my friends sell boxing autographs worth hundreds and even thousands of dollars with no psa or jsa certs. i have helped sell 3 autographs of alejandro lavorante worth about 2400 apiece, and not one had psa or jsa or any certification. no grad or spence as they dont know the man;s signature anyway. will get back to that in a bit. maybe i will even start a separate thread on it.


as for the post i made, i dont remember it specifically, but many times people post autographs here and it is a setup, so its not always easy to figure out which ones are the setups and which ones arent. sometimes it is the comments of other people that lead me to believe that it is a setup. so sorry if i thought it was and it wasn't.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by travrosty

[I]

that's not true, there are good ways to sell it without authentication from the big two. there are alternatives. me and my friends sell boxing autographs worth hundreds and even thousands of dollars with no psa or jsa certs. i have helped sell 3 autographs of alejandro lavorante worth about 2400 apiece, and not one had psa or jsa or any certification. no grad or spence as they dont know the man;s signature anyway. will get back to that in a bit. maybe i will even start a separate thread on it.

this point always bug me. sure there are ways to sell it w/o authentication, if your name is stinson or simon or keating etc where your rep is good and you have connections with a database of buying clients...or you where your name is known in the boxing circle.

the little guys need spence or psa/dna to level the field a bit. it doesn't matter if the seller knows the sig is good, it's whether the potential buyer believe it is...and the reality is JSA and PSA/DNA have done a good enough job to earn the consumer's trust.

[jgmp123]

You give the buyer what they want. 9 times out of 10, when you sell an autograph on a site like eBay the first question asked is "does it come with a cert"...if I am a seller and I want to actually "sell" the item, then I have to put the things in place that the seller wants to bid on my item. If that means I get it certified, then that's what you do.

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

the little guys need spence or psa/dna to level the field a bit. it doesn't matter if the seller knows the sig is good, it's whether the potential buyer believe it is...and the reality is JSA and PSA/DNA have done a good enough job to earn the consumer's trust.

I completely agree with both points...the little guy (like me) needs a cert from one of the big two to sell an auto...and that JSA and PSA must have done a good enough job to earn the industry's trust.

And without question, even the best of the best make mistakes. But some of these mistakes (including this one with the "Blarney Stone" Ruth) makes me wonder how a company so well versed and experienced in Ruth autos, could make a mistake on this poorly executed forgery. Is it simply a case of them having so many Ruth's run through their system that some inevitably fall through the cracks?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

this point always bug me. sure there are ways to sell it w/o authentication, if your name is stinson or simon or keating etc where your rep is good and you have connections with a database of buying clients...or you where your name is known in the boxing circle.

the little guys need spence or psa/dna to level the field a bit. it doesn't matter if the seller knows the sig is good, it's whether the potential buyer believe it is...and the reality is JSA and PSA/DNA have done a good enough job to earn the consumer's trust.

I respectfully disagree. I buy autographed letters and I don't need either PSA or JSA. I buy from reputable sellers and I do my homework - that's really all there is to it. If you don't have confidence enough in your own knowledge to buy autographs without LOA's, then you really shouldn't buy them (yet) - the answer is not throwing that responsibility on PSA and JSA.

As far as earning the consumer's trust - PSA has not earned mine. It's not just about their mistakes - it's more about their arrogance.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I respectfully disagree. I buy autographed letters and I don't need either PSA or JSA. I buy from reputable sellers and I do my homework - that's really all there is to it. If you don't have confidence enough in your own knowledge to buy autographs without LOA's, then you really shouldn't buy them (yet) - the answer is not throwing that responsibility on PSA and JSA.

As far as earning the consumer's trust - PSA has not earned mine. It's not just about their mistakes - it's more about their arrogance.

Yes, you buy. I too love to buy without certs, because it can be had cheaper. He's talking about selling. There is no doubt that if you are not a big name dealer and you are going to sell a Ruth auto, or any high end baseball auto for that matter, the investment to get it certed by one of the two big alphabets pays dividends. I don't know or care about boxing, but it's true in baseball. That is a result of marketing, and it is a pain in the ass, but it is reality.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Yes, you buy. I too love to buy without certs, because it can be had cheaper. He's talking about selling. There is no doubt that if you are not a big name dealer and you are going to sell a Ruth auto, or any high end baseball auto for that matter, the investment to get it certed by one of the two big alphabets pays dividends. I don't know or care about boxing, but it's true in baseball. That is a result of marketing, and it is a pain in the ass, but it is reality.

Doh. You are right - I read the posts, but totally was focused on buying, not selling.

But I still disagree with their point, even when selling. First of all, you are going to get screwed if you sell on ebay, PSA and/or JSA cert or not - yes, a known seller will do better than you, regardless of LOA's. That leaves two other options. If you are selling here, then you shouldn't have any problems - I've done much better selling non-certified autographs here, than certified on ebay. Your third option is to sell through an auction house, and they will slap on a PSA/JSA 'pre-cert' designation whether you like it or not.

The above is true from my experience, for the legitimate stuff (like the letters I buy and sometimes sell), but if you were trying to sell a single-signed (or even team) Ruth forged baseball, the PSA or JSA LOA would be very, very helpful.

[Bestdj777]

Westsider, just wanted to weigh in on your question to Travis about your prior thread. Although I cannot speak for his personal views on that thread, I think a common concern was that you were fishing for details on how to approve a fake autograph. You posted an auto and provided a story that did not seem plausible (that a reputable card company provided you a certified autograph of questionable origins twice). It seemed to me, at first, that you were not telling the truth. I am sure forgers have posted their work on sites like this looking for feedback on why experts think it looks off in order to improve their work. Just my thoughts as to why you were facing criticism from some of the members.

Glad to see you were telling the truth and hope you end up with an autograph that you feel comfortable with in the end.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by travrosty

as it stands now, if I'm looking to resell a high end auto, I need it to be certed by JSA or PSA. And despite their lack of customer service, there doesn't appear to be any other alternative.




that's not true, there are good ways to sell it without authentication from the big two. there are alternatives. me and my friends sell boxing autographs worth hundreds and even thousands of dollars with no psa or jsa certs. i have helped sell 3 autographs of alejandro lavorante worth about 2400 apiece, and not one had psa or jsa or any certification. no grad or spence as they dont know the man;s signature anyway.

it is true in baseball, no doubt about it.