Help Needed regarding bad Babe Ruth auto

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by travrosty

But if the blarney ruth was already certified by the other firm, why would they want to get it off the market, i don't get it???????

In my opinion, they wanted it off the market because they realized that it wasn't authentic.

I presented them with a detailed summary as to why I thought it was bad...including many examples of authentic Ruth autos.

At first, they relied on the JSA cert...telling me that if I had an issue with the cert, I should contact JSA directly (which I did...another long story).

After presenting Tri-Star with all the evidence, I asked them contact one of their connections at PSA to get a quick "off the record" opinion on it. I don't know if they actually contacted PSA, but a short time later, I received a call from Tri-Star offering to replace the card.

In short, I think Tri-Star was/is attempting to do the right thing in replacing the card. But when the second Ruth auto also seemed suspicious to so many in this forum, it left me a bit more confused.

Overall, Tri-Star's customer service has been pretty good up to this point...but this process seems to really be dragging, and they have become increasingly slower and slower to get back to me.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

In my opinion, they wanted it off the market because they realized that it wasn't authentic.

I presented them with a detailed summary as to why I thought it was bad...including many examples of authentic Ruth autos.

At first, they relied on the JSA cert...telling me that if I had an issue with the cert, I should contact JSA directly (which I did...another long story).

After presenting Tri-Star with all the evidence, I asked them contact one of their connections at PSA to get a quick "off the record" opinion on it. I don't know if they actually contacted PSA, but a short time later, I received a call from Tri-Star offering to replace the card.

In short, I think Tri-Star was/is attempting to do the right thing in replacing the card. But when the second Ruth auto also seemed suspicious to so many in this forum, it left me a bit more confused.

Overall, Tri-Star's customer service has been pretty good up to this point...but this process seems to really be dragging, and they have become increasingly slower and slower to get back to me.

The problem that some insert companies are facing is the increased prices every year for these cuts of the famous and desirable hall of famers, ruth, cobb, wagner, etc.

most of these companies try to get the cheapest ruth, cobb , wagner, mathewson, cy young they can find obviously. since they are not autograph experts themselves, they find one with a cert from the big two. this blarney ruth fit the bill, had a big two cert and probably cost less than other ruths.

they should find a textbook ruth and shell out the full retail for it if they wanted to avoid controversy, but that';s just not the way it works with companies, they wants to squeeze every dollar, and unfortunately, authentication suffers sometimes because of it. I hope you get a dead-on ruth for your troubles. east coast authenticator isnt going to give you much help in this matter. i would love to see exemplars that match up to that blarney ruth.

[David Atkatz]

Without taking a stand as to the authenticity of either of the two side-by-side Ruth signatures you presented above, I must ask you, why do you feel they are an exact match?

As far as I can tell, there's not a single letter formation that matches.

[mighty bombjack]

Haven't we seen that Leaf was fooled by a forged alphabet cert, leading to a forged auto being put into a Leaf card and then slabbed by Beckett? Perhaps the same happened to Tristar. Could be that these forgers found a new ready market in the card companies, who have deep pockets but are easy targets due to their bureaucracies and desires for wholesale prices?

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Haven't we seen that Leaf was fooled by a forged alphabet cert, leading to a forged auto being put into a Leaf card and then slabbed by Beckett? Perhaps the same happened to Tristar. Could be that these forgers found a new ready market in the card companies, who have deep pockets but are easy targets due to their bureaucracies and desires for wholesale prices?

Yes...there was a Leaf card with a bad Ruth auto that was discovered this past week (result of a forged JSA cert). But the Leaf card wasn't a chase card...just one of the $45 DIY offered by Leaf.

But this doesn't appear to be the case with the Tri-Star card. The JSA cert for the initial chase card...the "Blarney Stone" Ruth, is a valid cert. However, it appears that it's a good cert for a bad auto.

Not sure if it's the case with the offered replacement auto.

[chaddurbin]

did you contact JSA, and what did they say?

sorry couldn't help you any further, that's the problem with autographs at the end of the day they're all just opinions.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

did you contact JSA, and what did they say?

sorry couldn't help you any further, that's the problem with autographs at the end of the day they're all just opinions.

but keep our cert handy because that makes it real. it's only an opinion if someone can point to it being a fake, its gospel if people think its real.

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

did you contact JSA, and what did they say?

sorry couldn't help you any further, that's the problem with autographs at the end of the day they're all just opinions.

Initially, when I got the (2) "unable to render" responses, I contacted PSA to ask why I couldn't get an opinion (either way). I was told that the PSA authenticators don't speak to customers on the phone. Being a newbie...I figured this was the industry norm.

After being advised by Tri-Star to contact JSA, I assumed that I would get the same response. To my surprise, I briefly explained the situation to the woman that answered the phone, and she immediately got an authenticator to speak to me on the phone. My first impression was..."wow, what great customer service." After a few seconds into my conversation with the authenticator, my opinion of their customer service drastically changed.

I briefly explained the reason for my call, then asked the authenticator about a specific issue that I had with the auto. From the start, the authenticator was extremely defensive and told me that he "didn't owe me or anyone else an explanation" regarding the concern with the auto. I was then told that my only option was to re-submit the auto to JSA and have them re-examine it.

I told the authenticator that I would be happy to re-submit it and pay the fees if I could get any kind of opinion regarding my primary concern with the card. He was again extremely rude and he told me that it would never happen. So basically, I would be paying $200 for a form letter, confirming their initial opinion (why would they ever contradict their initial opinion).

Again, when this transaction began, I was a novice to Ruth autos (and autos in general). I never imagined there were so many shades of gray in the industry...Very unfortunate.

[Sean1125]

I glad you ended up coming to the board for help. I know you will be able to get some from the experienced members here.

Sean

[Westsiders]

Sorry David....I should have explained it better.

The side-by-side comparison is from a website...featuring the bad Ruth on the left, vs. a good Ruth on the right.http://www.collecting-autographs.com...ntication.html

The Ruth auto on the left was offered as the replacement auto. So the exact match is between the replacement auto...and the Ruth auto on the left. And the match itself was discovered as result of some good detective work by members of Net54.

[David Atkatz]

Thanks for clearing that up.