What NY Yankee should be in the HOF?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Good players are good players. I don't buy the thinking that some players are only in the HOF because they played for the Yankees. You'd have to hold being on a good team against every HOFer if you're going to hold it against a Yankee.

I think the Yankee factor got Joe Gordon in. Does he really get in with the same puny stats playing for the Browns?

[packs]

Yes. He missed prime years due to the war and according to Baseball Reference he is the 16th best second baseman to ever play the game. He got elected over 30 years after his death. It's not like it was a Frankie Frisch situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Yes. He missed years due to the war and according to Baseball Reference he is the 16th best second baseman to ever play the game. He got elected over 30 years after his death. It's not like it was a Frankie Frisch situation.

He only missed two years. He hit .268 with 1500 plus hits. His closest comparables are Bret Boone, Jose Valentin and Bill Nicholson.

The writers who saw him play obviously thought he was HOF material.
Hall of Fame
1945 BBWAA ( 0.4%)
1955 BBWAA ( 0.4%)
1956 BBWAA ( 2.1%)
1958 BBWAA ( 4.1%)
1960 BBWAA ( 4.1%)
1962 BBWAA ( 2.5%)
1964 BBWAA (14.9%)
1964 Run Off ( 0.5%)
1966 BBWAA (10.3%)
1967 BBWAA (22.6%)
1967 Run Off ( 4.2%)
1968 BBWAA (27.2%)
1969 BBWAA (28.5%)
1970 BBWAA (26.3%)

[packs]

The two years he missed are on average the best statistical years a player has, ages 29 and 30.

Of the 19 HOF second basemen Gordon has a better WAR than 9 of them, 10 if you count Bucky Harris and 11 if you consider Jeff Kent a future HOFer.

That puts him in the top 10 all time amongst HOF second baseman. That's not a puny career.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the Yankee factor got Joe Gordon in. Does he really get in with the same puny stats playing for the Browns?

I still don't know how Joe Gordon won the AL MVP in 1942 over Ted Williams even though Williams won the Triple Crown, and basically led the league in practically all offensive categories that year.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the Yankee factor got Joe Gordon in. Does he really get in with the same puny stats playing for the Browns?

One of the big digs against Ron Santo was that he never made the playoffs. So it can work both ways.

[beachhead2]

But I'm surprised Bernie Williams is seldom in this conversation. Especially in comparison to Mattingly. His peak wasn't as good as Mattingly's but his career numbers are remarkably similar. Williams also played a key defensive position on 6 AL pennant teams and 4 WS winners. That said, I'm not saying he should be in. I'm just surprised I never hear him mentioned.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by beachhead2

But I'm surprised Bernie Williams is seldom in this conversation. Especially in comparison to Mattingly. His peak wasn't as good as Mattingly's but his career numbers are remarkably similar. Williams also played a key defensive position on 6 AL pennant teams and 4 WS winners. That said, I'm not saying he should be in. I'm just surprised I never hear him mentioned.

Great player, but Bernies numbers took a tumble the last 4 years of his career, and he's similar to several other OF's who never really got a sniff at the HOF. Ellis Burks, Fred Lynn, Bobby Bonds.

[Runscott]

So, Koufax has 6 consecutive less than average years, one G+ year, 5 great years, then quits.

Mattingly has a 12 AB year, a .283 part-time year, 6 excellent years, then...
...does NOT quit, but plays 6 more years - all above average, but not excellent.

My argument would be that, given Koufax' arthritis, if he had played the 6 additional years that Mattingly did after his prime, he might have totally sucked during that period.