Chicago Union Giants Negro Postcard

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mannybb24

Good find Scott, see, I told you it was Jack Johnson.

I received an email from the winner of the postcard a few days ago and even after spending 2.4k on it, he knows nothing about the team.
He did say he will be doing his own research on it so I'll definitely let you know what he can come up with, if anything.

Steve

Steve, I agree concerning the 1905 Union Giants, but not the Union Giants on the 1907 postcard - almost certainly two different people. The Chicago Union Giants were almost exclusively a barnstorming team after Leland split with Peters and formed the 'Leland Giants', so anyone could be on the team during a given road trip;e.g-Will Horn from the Lelands showing up on Peter's team in 1907 (sort of surprising, given the Peters/Leland history).

I have been maintaining rosters/stats for some of the Chicago teams from 1909-11. I should have enough information somewhere from 1907 to get some good rosters together for those Chicago teams.

I just checked a sampling of 1907 Leland Giants box-scores (May through August), and Will Horn does not show up in any of them. If that recent Union Giants postcard is showing Horn on loan from the Lelands, it's almost certainly not from 1907.

[mannybb24]

I was kidding Scott, no doubt it appears to be two different guys. Keep us updated on your finding.

[bcbgcbrcb]

WOW, I can rarely afford to spend $2,400 on something that is a must have for my collection let alone an item that I don't know anything about.

[Runscott]

Yeah, if I could have i.d.'d 2-3 players as being from the 1911 Leland Giants and/or the 1911 KC,KS Giants (Jack Johnson, for example), I would have bid what I thought was high, and still wouldn't have been the winning bidder.

I figured he knew something we didn't

[Shoeless Moe]

Maybe he thought the chubby dude was Rube Foster.

[bcbgcbrcb]

That's a good possibility, Paul. I considered that until I found the reverse image on the internet on another postcard where that individual is much more clearly pictured. Then, it was obvious that it was not Foster. The other thing that did not make sense was that the postcard had to be produced after March, 1907 based on the divided back and Foster's only season with the CUG was 1902. I have never seen a Negro League postcard printed several years later picturing an earlier team although it has happened with MLB teams from the 1890's and printed in the early 1900's.

[Runscott]

Not to be insulting, but no one in that photo closely resembles Rube Foster. There are zillions of Foster photos available for comparisons.

Will Horn played for the Leland Giants in 1905 and possibly 1906, but not in 1907. Could be that he was barnstorming with the Union Giants in 1907, wearing the last uniform he owned - from the 1905 or 1906 Lelands (reference books say he retired after either 1905 or 1906).

[Runscott]

Here is the 1908 Chicago Union Giants team that was announced in the March 15 Chicago Examiner:

Pitchers: Ball, Jussep and Horn (surprise!)
catchers: Robertson and Campbell
infielders: Johnson, Smith, Toney and Bings
outfielders: Green, Ramsey and Matthews

Here are some 1908 Chicago Union Giants line-ups (from actual box-scores):

April 6 paper:

Toney 3b
Ramsey lf
Green cf
Johnson ss
Robinson 1b
Williams rf
Wallace c
Lansty 2b
Haynes p

May 17 paper:

Toney 2b
Smith 3b
Green cf
Robinson 1b
Ramsey lf
Young rf
Primm c
Hutchison ss
Talbert p

May 18 paper:

same, except Young dropped below Hutchison and spelled 'Talbot' instead of 'Talbert'

Sept 12 paper says West and Primm will be the battery for upcoming game

[Runscott]

I have an article in the editors' hands that has quite a bit of Jack Johnson stuff in it, but I'll try to put together a bio.

Meanwhile, here's the 1917 Topeka Giants. The suited man in the back row has Johnson's features if you compare to the 1905 Union Giants pics of him.

I would love a clearer photo of the 1909 KC,KS Giants - it certainly has Johnson in it, but the man i.d.'d as him doesn't match up well with the 1905 pics.

Anyone have one?

[Runscott]

Here's an interesting article written by Topeka Jack, himself, referring to his playing days with the Chicago Union Giants:

[Runscott]

This doesn't help i.d. the year of the card, but here are two games played by the Chicago Union Giants against Maquaketa, Iowa on July 22,23 of 1909.

Maquaketa could have been an annual midwest stop for them: