Top 30 Pre-WWII Players

[Shoele$$]

IMO I think a more fair way to rank players is Dead Ball Era and Pre WWII Live Ball era. Too many things changed after 1920 in favor of the batters, hence the obvious sudden explosion in home runs.

Dead Ball Era Batters:
1.) Ty Cobb
2.) Honus Wagner
3.) Joe Jackson
4.) Tris Speaker
5.) Nap Lajoie
6.) Eddie Collins
7.) Sam Crawford
8.) Zack Wheat
9.) Willie Keeler
10.) Home Run Baker

Dead Ball Pitchers:
1.) Walter Johnson
2.) Christy Mathewson
3.) Eddie Plank
4.) Grover Alexander
5.) Cy Young
6.) Mordecai Brown
7.) Ed Walsh
8.) Chief Bender
9.) Rube Waddell
10.) Addie Joss

[Sean]

This is a great topic. It reminds me of how I used to argue with my father about the merits of Cobb (his choice) and Ruth. He passed away four years ago, so I'll have to argue with some of you instead.

1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Ty Cobb (I've read many articles and never saw anyone praise his defense).
4. Walter Johnson
5. Oscar Charleston (Buck O'Neil told me he was the best he ever saw).
6. Lou Gehrig
7. Lefty Grove
8. Josh Gibson
9. Joe Dimaggio (his best years were all pre-WWII).
10. Jimmie Foxx
11. Christy Mathewson
12. Tris Speaker
13. Eddie Collins
14. John Henry Lloyd
15. Cy Young
16. Rogers Hornsby
17. Napoleon Lajoie
18. Grover Cleveland Alexander
19. Ed Delahanty
20. Satchell Paige
21. Mickey Cochrane
22. Arky Vaughn
23. Kid Nichols
24. Shoeless Joe Jackson
25. Sam Crawford
26. Carl Hubbell
27. Dizzy Dean
28. Zack Wheat
29. Mordecai Brown
30. Mike Donlin (Sentimental pick. He's my favorite T206 player. I always like drunken Irishmen).

[Joem36]

Where would Home Run Baker fit?

[GaryPassamonte]

It seems like the first 29 years of major league baseball virtually didn't exist when looking at the lists.

[goodtricks]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

It seems like the first 29 years of major league baseball virtually didn't exist when looking at the lists.

I was just about to mention this.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Joem36

Where would Home Run Baker fit?

I don't have Baker on my list, though he is a better player than Donlin. It's just that Donlin is my favorite.

[goodtricks]

Great lists so far! I'll do my best to force rank/compile what people have posted so far and add to the OP tonight. Then we can continue to debate/revise.

Keep'em comin!

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by Joem36

Where would Home Run Baker fit?

I've always viewed Baker as a very good player who went into God-mode for four years and little more.

But what a four years it was...

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mattsey9

I've always viewed Baker as a very good player who went into God-mode for four years and little more.

But what a four years it was...

Hi Mike, and hello to Otis as well. I think Baker was the best third baseman ever prior to 1950, when it seemed to be regarded as a primarily defensive position (like shortstop). After Al Rosen and Eddie Mathews it came to be seen as a hitters position and almost all the best third basemen are from post 1950.
This is the only position where you can't go back before WWII and find at least one or two of the all time greats who played the position IMHO.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hi Mike, and hello to Otis as well. I think Baker was the best third baseman ever prior to 1950, when it seemed to be regarded as a primarily defensive position (like shortstop). After Al Rosen and Eddie Mathews it came to be seen as a hitters position and almost all the best third basemen are from post 1950.
This is the only position where you can't go back before WWII and find at least one or two of the all time greats who played the position IMHO.

Hello, Sean. Hope all is well.

Definitely the best third baseman before 1950 before the sluggers came along, and that warrants his HOF status. Not sure I'd have him on my top 30 list though. I guess I'd better actually do one and find out.

[obcbobd]

Great topic, would have to give quite a bit of thought to 2-20, but without question Ruth is #1, comparing his hitting (OPS, OPS+, there's more to hitting than batting average) to Cobb, its not even close.

[Paul S]

Exciting topic. 40 replies before I had a chance to even see this thread! I like the posters who have already named their top 30, ranked or not. However, before we get into debates about ranking top 3, top 5, etc., (and that's fun)shouldn't we know the players we are dealiing with? Can I be so bold to suggest everyone just list their 30 players? Then tally the names and the ones that appear most are the list. If one of my players is not on it, tough luck for me. Then we can post our ranked lists and go from there.
As far as players on the cusp like Williams and Joe D, I say they're fair game, Let the people speak. My guess is that they won't even make it in the first cut anyway, due to the bias of board members, myself included.
Anyway, that's my 3 cents.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Great topic, would have to give quite a bit of thought to 2-20, but without question Ruth is #1, comparing his hitting (OPS, OPS+, there's more to hitting than batting average) to Cobb, its not even close.

Agreed. I think it's just contrarian to claim anybody was better than Ruth.