Top 30 Pre-WWII Players

[GregMitch34]

People not picking Babe #1 surely are joking. Hell, he'd bat cleanup and then come on and pitch the final 3 innings to save the game for Matty.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

People not picking Babe #1 surely are joking. Hell, he'd bat cleanup and then come on and pitch the final 3 innings to save the game for Matty.

No way. I'm calling foul on this one. Babe didn't become the power hitter we know until after his pitching prime was over. He was never a force of both at any one time. You can't have it both ways.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by conor912

No way. I'm calling foul on this one. Babe didn't become the power hitter we know until after his pitching prime was over. He was never a force of both at any one time. You can't have it both ways.

Babe led his team in HR's during his pitching years and with far fewer AB's, I think. In any case, Cobb would have to be considered...that is by the second coach when it's his turn to pick

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Babe led his team in HR's during his pitching years and with far fewer AB's, I think. In any case, Cobb would have to be considered...that is by the second coach when it's his turn to pick

Cobb's best year was 1911, when he had a 1.088 OPS. Babe Ruth averaged a 1.164 OPS. That means that Cobb's best year ever would have been a subpar year for The Babe.

In other words, Cobb was nowhere nearly as good as Ruth, and in fact, if we were to count him, Ted Williams would come out ahead of Cobb as well. Then, if you were to consider that Cobb was a despicable human being, there is nothing great about that, either.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Cobb's best year was 1911, when he had a 1.088 OPS. Babe Ruth averaged a 1.164 OPS. That means that Cobb's best year ever would have been a subpar year for The Babe.

In other words, Cobb was nowhere nearly as good as Ruth, and in fact, if we were to count him, Ted Williams would come out ahead of Cobb as well. Then, if you were to consider that Cobb was a despicable human being, there is nothing great about that, either.

Fair enough, but 1) lets leave the morality debate for another time 2) Babe did the lions's share of his slugging after the dead ball era was over, whereas Cobb did his smack in the middle of it 3) at age 40 Cobb had 175 hits. By 40 Ruth had already drank and fried chickened himself out of the game. I'll take small ball production and stamina over power any day.

Let's just call it a managerial difference

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by conor912

Fair enough, but 1) lets leave the morality debate for another time 2) Babe did the lions's share of his slugging after the dead ball era was over, whereas Cobb did his smack in the middle of it 3) at age 40 Cobb had 175 hits. By 40 Ruth had already drank and fried chickened himself out of the game. I'll take small ball production and stamina over power any day.

Let's just call it a managerial difference

Those are good points, but even factoring in the league differences, plus the extra years Cobb played, Ruth still comes out ahead in WAR (160 to 144). But then Ruth also posted a 19.1 Pitching WAR, which gives him a total of 179. So Ruth outdistances Cobb by a pretty good margin.

Let me also say that Ruth had a World Series OPS of 1.211, while Cobb's was a miniscule .668. Talk about coming up small in the bigtime! If that's your definition of "small ball", then Cobb's a perfect fit.

[deadballfreaK]

I'm dividing mine into hitters and pitchers.
1. Babe Ruth- he was both.
2. Honus Wagner
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Ty Cobb
2,3,4 very close. I could flip flop
5. Eddie Collins
6. Tris Speaker
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Nap Lajoie
9. Joe Jackson- he would have hammered the ball for another 5 years
10. Jimmy Foxx
11. Arky Vaughan-way underrated
12. George Davis- ditto
13. Mickey Cochrane
14. Bill Dickey- Gotta get catchers in there somewhere They don't always show their value in stats. Cochrane and Dickey were pretty close. I could take either.
15. Frank Frisch
16. Bobby Wallace
17. Cap Anson
18. Joe Cronin
19. Ed Delahanty
20. 50 guys could take this spot.

Pitchers
1. Walter Johnson
2. Cy Young
3. Pete Alexander
4. Christy Mathewson
5. Lefty Grove
6. Kid Nichols
7. Carl Hubbell
8. Dazzy Vance
9. Addie Joss
10. Mordecai Brown

Probably left out out some greats and will have to edit

[conor912]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Those are good points, but even factoring in the league differences, plus the extra years Cobb played, Ruth still comes out ahead in WAR (160 to 144). But then Ruth also posted a 19.1 Pitching WAR, which gives him a total of 179. So Ruth outdistances Cobb by a pretty good margin.

Let me also say that Ruth had a World Series OPS of 1.211, while Cobb's was a miniscule .668. Talk about coming up small in the bigtime! If that's your definition of "small ball", then Cobb's a perfect fit.

Again, different eras so I still feel like were comparing apples to oranges, but I will indulge your WS point. Look at the guys who batted around Ruth in the order and those who batted around Cobb. It takes a whole team to win. Look at all those other HOFers on the Yankees! Had Ruth been the only superstar on his team like Cobb was, he never would have seen one pitch to hit.

[digdugdig]

Another way to look at this...like putting together a fantasy league team...all time.
Who would be YOUR #1 pick, etc.
Are ya gonna go with the old addage "good pitching stops good hitting" or the eveyday position player??
A little different twist on this subject.