How does this Heritage/Mantle look to you?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think Chris from Heritage explained the process quite well. The fact that some of our members either didn't read what he said, or can't comprehend it, is beside the point. Questions are being asked that have been answered already. Things get pulled from every single auction house that runs auctions, mine included. Mistakes happen and it's the way they are handled that counts the most (to me).

Leon - you are correct, the way that it is handled is the important thing.
But they "pre-handle" it by saying the item is pre-certified and in the autograph business, as I have already stated, that means it has been looked at by someone with knowledge of autographs.
I have asked them to explain that, because it is pretty obvious to me that PSA and JSA did not look at the item in question. If they had looked at it, I am certain it would never have made it to the auction site. They both would have rejected that Florida trash in a heartbeat.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Leon - you are correct, the way that it is handled is the important thing.
But they "pre-handle" it by saying the item is pre-certified and in the autograph business, as I have already stated, that means it has been looked at by someone with knowledge of autographs.
I have asked them to explain that, because it is pretty obvious to me that PSA and JSA did not look at the item in question. If they had looked at it, I am certain it would never have made it to the auction site. They both would have rejected that Florida trash in a heartbeat.

Please tell me why it is even a big deal??? It either means it is pre-(prior to when they were to have it looked at by psa/jsa) or their own people made a mistake. No one would have got a bad item as it would have been caught by psa or jsa. There is a safety in place either way. Why are you so hung up on this??

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Please tell me why it is even a big deal??? It either means it is pre-(prior to when they were to have it looked at by psa/jsa) or their own people made a mistake. No one would have got a bad item as it would have been caught by psa or jsa. There is a safety in place either way. Why are you so hung up on this??

When an auction house states an autograph is pre-certified they are stating the item is real and that it has been looked at by a qualified person.
Why put up a forgery and solicit bids otherwise? Why state it has been looked at by a qualified person WHEN IT HAS NOT.
No one would have gotten a bad item that is correct. But I believe they are obfuscating when they state the item has been pre-certified.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

When an auction house states an autograph is pre-certified they are implying the item is real and that it has been looked at. Why put up a forgery and solicit bids otherwise?

Ok...fair enough.. well maybe they looked at it with their own team which made a mistake.
Again.. what is the big deal if it gets taken down anyway??

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Ok...fair enough.. well maybe they looked at it with their own team which made a mistake.
Again.. what is the big deal if it gets taken down anyway??

We are arguing apples and oranges here. You don't think it is important, Shelly, myself, Travis and James Graham think it is. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind on this.
And I don't think, correct me if I am wrong, that their own team examines autographs, so I hesitate to call it a mistake. It was sent to them, they put it up, IMHO nobody looked at it, despite calling it pre-certified but,,,,
they took it off, they are done with the subject. So am I.

[Joe Hunter]

If I saw the term "pre-certified" I would come away with the impression that the item had at least been viewed by a knowledgeable person. For example, if an item was submitted to PSA for a Quick Opinion and it came back as "likely genuine", I would consider the item as having been pre-certified. It hasn't been positively authenticated yet, but there is a reasonable chance that it will. I do understand the prefix "pre" means prior to; however, in the context of an auction item I believe it implies there is a reasonable chance the item is authentic and has been deemed so by someone "in the know" prior to receiving a letter of authentication from a reputable TPC.

[Deertick]

Would an auction house list a ring as "Pre-certified 14k gold" until they got around to actually testing it?

[frankbmd]

Once again the definition follows:

pre-
a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, where it meant “before” ( preclude; prevent ); applied freely as a prefix, with the meanings “prior to,” “in advance of,” “early,” “beforehand,” “before,” “in front of,” and with other figurative meanings ( preschool; prewar; prepay; preoral; prefrontal ).

In the context of the current discussion I see no indication that what follows pre- should be interpreted as a fait accompli. I do not think the prefix should be interpreted as a guarantee that what follows is at all certain. It just hasn't happened yet (and may not).

However I feel strongly that all Auction Houses should have a mechanism in place, "prelisting", to "prevent" the "premature" placement in an auction of a bogus item that later requires withdrawl. I think there should be agreement here. My point about the language is secondary, but arguably correct.

Maturity is not a fait accompli of prematurity. Look around.

[shelly]

There is also slang. Words that are used incorrectly but are well understood when placed in a certain arena. The autograph hobby is one of those places. Pre certified means in this arena to mean that it has been looked at a found to be authentic. Why else would you accept bids or even show it. You look like a fool if where not to be what people thought to be fact.
Wow I have watched to much of Down Town Abbey

[Leon]

For the record I do think the wording could be changed to be more clear. When I see the term pre-certified, I have to agree that in my mind it has been looked at already, not that it will be looked at before auction end. If I were them I would take that term out....then if a piece is found to be bad it can be pulled. That's just me though..... Just trying to keep it real...and I still think they are a good, honest auction house too.

[chaddurbin]

how easy is it in the auction software to change the pre-certified to pending certification*? it would eliminate alot of these problems as well as the perception of misleading their potential bidders.


*really easy.