How does this Heritage/Mantle look to you?

[kneerat]

Hello,

This thread has been brought to our attention so we would like to provide some clarification of our authentication process.
First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both.
We cannot stress this enough. Due to the logistics of running constant auctions that begin and end every week, occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA, who examines our Sunday Internet Sports Auctions (SISA). While this is admittedly not ideal, it is important to understand that no auction reaches its conclusion without that evaluation. Lots are pulled prior to the end of the four-week bidding process if they are deemed not authentic or questionable. Never will an autographed lot in a Heritage auction close prior to examination. We do understand it can be frustrating to bid on a lot only to have the auction end prior to the conclusion, but we would all agree that this is preferable to selling material that is not genuine. We would also suggest that ideally those who feel they have spotted a problematic item in a Heritage auction would bring it to our attention directly via email to Sports@HA.com, which would be the most effective course of action to ensure speedy removal of such items from auction. The entire hobby is improved when mudslinging is replaced by goodwill and a helpful intent.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by kneerat

Hello,

This thread has been brought to our attention so we would like to provide some clarification of our authentication process.
First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both.
We cannot stress this enough. Due to the logistics of running constant auctions that begin and end every week, occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA, who examines our Sunday Internet Sports Auctions (SISA). While this is admittedly not ideal, it is important to understand that no auction reaches its conclusion without that evaluation. Lots are pulled prior to the end of the four-week bidding process if they are deemed not authentic or questionable. Never will an autographed lot in a Heritage auction close prior to examination. We do understand it can be frustrating to bid on a lot only to have the auction end prior to the conclusion, but we would all agree that this is preferable to selling material that is not genuine. We would also suggest that ideally those who feel they have spotted a problematic item in a Heritage auction would bring it to our attention directly via email to Sports@HA.com, which would be the most effective course of action to ensure speedy removal of such items from auction. The entire hobby is improved when mudslinging is replaced by goodwill and a helpful intent.

+1

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by kneerat

Hello,

This thread has been brought to our attention so we would like to provide some clarification of our authentication process.
First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both.
We cannot stress this enough. Due to the logistics of running constant auctions that begin and end every week, occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA, who examines our Sunday Internet Sports Auctions (SISA). While this is admittedly not ideal, it is important to understand that no auction reaches its conclusion without that evaluation. Lots are pulled prior to the end of the four-week bidding process if they are deemed not authentic or questionable. Never will an autographed lot in a Heritage auction close prior to examination. We do understand it can be frustrating to bid on a lot only to have the auction end prior to the conclusion, but we would all agree that this is preferable to selling material that is not genuine. We would also suggest that ideally those who feel they have spotted a problematic item in a Heritage auction would bring it to our attention directly via email to Sports@HA.com, which would be the most effective course of action to ensure speedy removal of such items from auction. The entire hobby is improved when mudslinging is replaced by goodwill and a helpful intent.

Chris,
So if the item is listed without an examination, why say it is pre-certified and create an impression that is totally incorrect?
I don't regard this question as mud slinging, I do think it is worthy of a response.
The entire hobby is improved by truthful statements in auction house descriptions, don't you think?

[shelly]

Chris,
You say pre certified in many of your auction descriptions but we don't even know who does the pre certifying based on your auction descriptions.In this case I would have thought Drew Max, Ted Taylor and if you where very lucky Morales might have done your early certification.
And as Richard has pointed out you are saying pre certified when the item has not been pre certified I am really confused.
You also ask us to help you out by e mailing you when we find mistakes.
You are paying the major tpa guys to do that work, why ask us to do it for free why not make us an offer we can't refuse. I know that there are better people on this site vs who you hire. How about the two geniuses that work for you now do you not trust there work?
Putting up that Mantle picture when the knowing part of the autograph community knows it is crap is an insult to us and makes us think you don't even care.
If no one had said a word about that piece how do we know that it would have been taken down?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by kneerat

Hello,

This thread has been brought to our attention so we would like to provide some clarification of our authentication process.
First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both.
We cannot stress this enough. Due to the logistics of running constant auctions that begin and end every week, occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA, who examines our Sunday Internet Sports Auctions (SISA). While this is admittedly not ideal, it is important to understand that no auction reaches its conclusion without that evaluation. Lots are pulled prior to the end of the four-week bidding process if they are deemed not authentic or questionable. Never will an autographed lot in a Heritage auction close prior to examination. We do understand it can be frustrating to bid on a lot only to have the auction end prior to the conclusion, but we would all agree that this is preferable to selling material that is not genuine. We would also suggest that ideally those who feel they have spotted a problematic item in a Heritage auction would bring it to our attention directly via email to Sports@HA.com, which would be the most effective course of action to ensure speedy removal of such items from auction. The entire hobby is improved when mudslinging is replaced by goodwill and a helpful intent.

Thank you for the response. I believe it was a good one and what, I , personally figured. Unfortunately, as you see below.. it doesn't matter what you say to some.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Thank you for the response. I believe it was a good one and what, I , personally figured. Unfortunately, as you see below.. it doesn't matter what you say to some.

Ben,

You see no issues with one of the major auction houses using the word "pre-certified" when it has actually not been? That doesn't seem like a CYA statement to you?

You shouldn't write the words "pre-certified" until it has been done. It is misleading and shady.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Ben,

You see no issues with one of the major auction houses using the word "pre-certified" when it has actually not been? That doesn't seem like a CYA statement to you?

You shouldn't write the words "pre-certified" until it has been done. It is misleading and shady.

+++
Ben is like the three wise monkeys, see no evil, etc.

[frankbmd]

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

[RichardSimon]

Frank,
I understand the point you are making but I would think that the vast majority of collectors would think that pre-certified for an autograph does mean that it has been looked at and that it appears, on first look, to be authentic.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

What Frank said. Even if they made an internal mistake, that is what psa and jsa is for. They have a process in place.

Shelly... I don't think they want or should want your help at any cost. I would guess they would not want their name associated with you for many reasons.

Richard.. I see the same monkeys on this auto-side every day and you are one of them. Unfortunately, you are the one on the right as most would prefer you to be the one in the middle.

PS: It takes a special kind of monkey to call out an auction house on a Mickey Mantle autograph berfore it was looked at by psa and jsa. ESPECIALLY when he has had a couple CERTIFIED Mantle pieces that were horrible and well documented.

[RichardSimon]

Ben - when you come out of the dreamland you live in, this will be a better place.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Ben - when you come out of the dreamland you live in, this will be a better place.

You are truly a Monkey. Would you like me to post your Mantles Mr. Simon?

[jgmp123]

Ben,

You honestly see no issues with an auction company as prevalent as Heritage is in this hobby listing an obvious forgery before it has been looked at by authenticators?

The fact that they withdrew it was obvious enough, just like the items they had in the big Walter Johnson auction a few weeks back that Hauls of Shame discovered.

My only beef is that they are displaying items for auction/sale that have not been reviewed by their authenticators. That is an issue. Why bring that kind of bad publicity when you don't have to.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Ben,

You honestly see no issues with an auction company as prevalent as Heritage is in this hobby listing an obvious forgery before it has been looked at by authenticators?

The fact that they withdrew it was obvious enough, just like the items they had in the big Walter Johnson auction a few weeks back that Hauls of Shame discovered.

My only beef is that they are displaying items for auction/sale that have not been reviewed by their authenticators. That is an issue. Why bring that kind of bad publicity when you don't have to.

I guess that is their decision. They obviously missed it and have PSA AND JSA to look at it before it is sold. Would you honestly say that their "pre-certed" Mantles usually look like this??? I think it was a mistake and it would have been corrected whether Little Richard and Shelly jumped on them or not.

[RichardSimon]

I am the one who does not listen?
You defend an auction house that uses language meant to create confusion and I don't listen? An auction house that proudly uses two COA's in their big auction in NYC,except when one of the TPA's does not think the item is authentic and that info is not revealed to the public. (Jackie Robinson ss ball, look it up).
Shelly has admitted to his mistakes. I have admitted to mistakes.
When will your holy trio of JSA, PSA and Heritage admit to any mistake?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I am the one who does not listen?
You defend an auction house that uses language meant to create confusion and I don't listen? An auction house that proudly uses two COA's in their big auction in NYC,except when one of the TPA's does not think the item is authentic and that info is not revealed to the public. (Jackie Robinson ss ball, look it up).
Shelly has admitted to his mistakes. I have admitted to mistakes.
When will your holy trio of JSA, PSA and Heritage admit to any mistake?

He just admitted it was a mistake and it would have been corrected and it has.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

That is an excellent point , from a purely techical point of view "pre" establishes "prior to" , as in pre-kindergarten, pre-teen etc. but it also implies the INEVITABILITY of the later, a pre teen will eventually become a teenager, a pre-K student will eventually become a 1st grader, Unless God forbid they died. It implies inevitability of an outcome.
Now that I've said my 2 cents , it appears I've accidently stumbled into the "Angry heated, Mudslinging" forum by accident. Could someone please direct me to the "Peace, Love and Happiness" forum ?? Thanks
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

That is an excellent point , from a purely techical point of view "pre" establishes "prior to" , as in pre-kindergarten, pre-teen etc. but it also implies the INEVITABILITY of the later, a pre teen will eventually become a teenager, a pre-K student will eventually become a 1st grader, Unless God forbid they died. It implies inevitability of an outcome.
Now that I've said my 2 cents , it appears I've accidently stumbled into the "Angry heated, Mudslinging" forum by accident. Could someone please direct me to the "Peace, Love and Happiness" forum ?? Thanks
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Yes an excellent point, but you know that pre-certified in this hobby means that a pair of knowledgeable eyes had been focused on it.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Thank you for the response. I believe it was a good one and what, I , personally figured. Unfortunately, as you see below.. it doesn't matter what you say to some.

You have to be kidding. You think they are right. You think that we should help them for free. It does matter what they say. It also matters what we say and we should not be put down for it.