Need some help on an authenticator

[Fuddjcal]

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

[shelly]

The Mantle is a total piece of garbage. There is no one that could defend it except Ted Taylor or Morales.

[RichardSimon]

Mantle autographs don't get any worse than the one on that picture.
It has a suntan from Florida and I am sure it has Florida beach sand on it too.

[thenavarro]

Here’s my take on Todd. First, a little background. I have known Todd since the mid 90’s. I live just South of Dallas, and Todd used to have his business at The Colony, a community North of Dallas. He and I used to frequent a particular autograph business in Richardson, and that’s where I met him. We would both buy/sell/trade etc, with the owner. Once I became friends with Todd, he would send me his autograph auction lists, which at that time was not really a catalog, just Xeroxed type pages. Eventually, it got to where I was buying and selling a lot (a lot by my standards then was a thousand or so a month) with him. Todd paid a nice price for quality pieces. I could buy/sell/trade with other collectors at shows, through magazines, direct mailing, etc., and Todd would pay a very fair price to where we could both make money as he had some clients that he could move the pieces too. I used to love going up to his warehouse, hanging out, bs-ing, talking graphs, and taking a carload full of stuff for him to consider buying. Most of the times, I’d leave with a nice check, which was always good, and most importantly, would clear  His mailing lists went from typed pages to black and white color catalogs, and business seemed to be going well. Then, ebay turned up, and slowly but surely, competition seemed to kick in. It became a bit harder to move pieces at mark ups. Eventually, his catalog auctions stopped completely I believe, and he came to rely on ebay for moving his product. At some point during that time period and the next couple years, he moved to Colorado I believe. I was disappointed to see him go, cause I had fun going to his warehouse and basically chatting with him. We had some joint friends in the business that we all did deals with. Somewhere along the line, some of his items began to disappear from ebay, because like ALL autograph dealers, some of his stuff was not legit. Sometimes, it really was legit, but ebay has certain opinions that it values more than others, so they would remove it anyway, and sometimes, it really was bogus and should be removed. Don’t forget here that ANY dealer that has been around a decent amount of time and tells you that they’ve never sold a fake, is full of BS. This is not an indictment, just a statement of fact that even the best intentioned people make mistakes occasionally. I think ebay suspended his account once or even twice for continuing to post those items, and it made him upset enough that he began his own website and own auction sales at his own site. It’s at this point too, that I believe that he began to go against the third party authentication aspect that was taking a foothold in the hobby because of good marketing and strategy. I don’t know this to be fact, but I think he aligned with Koschal around this time to create the Autograph Alert site that touted itself to be a watchdog, but that actually character assassinated a lot of former friends and associates. I was disappointed to find out that Todd might be a part of that. Again, I don’t know that to be a fact, but I have heard it from other people I trust. I think a lot of this was out of frustration, because the people on that site, thought they were BIG enough to put a dent into third party authentication since it had hurt their business, and they found out they were not as big as the marketing machine of a publicly held corporation. Thus, a lot of the people aligned through that process, have become the “champion” of bashing third party authentication and grading. You have seen the same or very similar dribble cut and pasted ad nauseum on many websites over the years.
As for Todd these days:
1) I still consider him an honest businessman. Meaning that I wouldn’t hesitate to send him an item first, and wouldn’t have any concerns with him stealing it, or that I wouldn’t get paid. I trust him to take care of those business aspects of transactions
2) I still occasionally buy stuff directly from his online auctions. As whenever I purchase anything, I try to do my research first, as again, he does have some items that IMO are bad, just like EVERY dealer has from time to time. He does occasionally have really nice items, and they go relatively cheap because of who is selling them. I was able to pick up a nice Babe Ruth a few months ago from Todd, that I had vetted on Net54, which I subsequently had slabbed by Spence and that I was able to move for a substantial profit rather quickly once slabbed.
3) If I bought an item from him that was later found to be bogus, I have little doubt that he’d take care of it. Todd is not a thief. I believe he is a little too trusting sometimes of “stories” that go along with graphs and relics, but he is not a thief.
4) Like most people in the business, I believe Todd to be a “niche” authenticator. Meaning he has good skills in some specific areas, but not in all, just like anyone else.
I believe when he alledgedly started the crusade against the TPA’s that it was done probably from a combination of spite, as well as a belief he had that it was the right thing for the industry. However, at some point along the line, I think it spiraled out of control for him, and his effort was joined by many that peddle almost nothing but fakes exclusively. I often wonder if he could go back and change the last few years, if he would. I haven’t asked him, but the Todd I knew back in the day, was a good guy.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Here’s my take on Todd. First, a little background. I have known Todd since the mid 90’s. I live just South of Dallas, and Todd used to have his business at The Colony, a community North of Dallas. He and I used to frequent a particular autograph business in Richardson, and that’s where I met him. We would both buy/sell/trade etc, with the owner. Once I became friends with Todd, he would send me his autograph auction lists, which at that time was not really a catalog, just Xeroxed type pages. Eventually, it got to where I was buying and selling a lot (a lot by my standards then was a thousand or so a month) with him. Todd paid a nice price for quality pieces. I could buy/sell/trade with other collectors at shows, through magazines, direct mailing, etc., and Todd would pay a very fair price to where we could both make money as he had some clients that he could move the pieces too. I used to love going up to his warehouse, hanging out, bs-ing, talking graphs, and taking a carload full of stuff for him to consider buying. Most of the times, I’d leave with a nice check, which was always good, and most importantly, would clear  His mailing lists went from typed pages to black and white color catalogs, and business seemed to be going well. Then, ebay turned up, and slowly but surely, competition seemed to kick in. It became a bit harder to move pieces at mark ups. Eventually, his catalog auctions stopped completely I believe, and he came to rely on ebay for moving his product. At some point during that time period and the next couple years, he moved to Colorado I believe. I was disappointed to see him go, cause I had fun going to his warehouse and basically chatting with him. We had some joint friends in the business that we all did deals with. Somewhere along the line, some of his items began to disappear from ebay, because like ALL autograph dealers, some of his stuff was not legit. Sometimes, it really was legit, but ebay has certain opinions that it values more than others, so they would remove it anyway, and sometimes, it really was bogus and should be removed. Don’t forget here that ANY dealer that has been around a decent amount of time and tells you that they’ve never sold a fake, is full of BS. This is not an indictment, just a statement of fact that even the best intentioned people make mistakes occasionally. I think ebay suspended his account once or even twice for continuing to post those items, and it made him upset enough that he began his own website and own auction sales at his own site. It’s at this point too, that I believe that he began to go against the third party authentication aspect that was taking a foothold in the hobby because of good marketing and strategy. I don’t know this to be fact, but I think he aligned with Koschal around this time to create the Autograph Alert site that touted itself to be a watchdog, but that actually character assassinated a lot of former friends and associates. I was disappointed to find out that Todd might be a part of that. Again, I don’t know that to be a fact, but I have heard it from other people I trust. I think a lot of this was out of frustration, because the people on that site, thought they were BIG enough to put a dent into third party authentication since it had hurt their business, and they found out they were not as big as the marketing machine of a publicly held corporation. Thus, a lot of the people aligned through that process, have become the “champion” of bashing third party authentication and grading. You have seen the same or very similar dribble cut and pasted ad nauseum on many websites over the years.
As for Todd these days:
1) I still consider him an honest businessman. Meaning that I wouldn’t hesitate to send him an item first, and wouldn’t have any concerns with him stealing it, or that I wouldn’t get paid. I trust him to take care of those business aspects of transactions
2) I still occasionally buy stuff directly from his online auctions. As whenever I purchase anything, I try to do my research first, as again, he does have some items that IMO are bad, just like EVERY dealer has from time to time. He does occasionally have really nice items, and they go relatively cheap because of who is selling them. I was able to pick up a nice Babe Ruth a few months ago from Todd, that I had vetted on Net54, which I subsequently had slabbed by Spence and that I was able to move for a substantial profit rather quickly once slabbed.
3) If I bought an item from him that was later found to be bogus, I have little doubt that he’d take care of it. Todd is not a thief. I believe he is a little too trusting sometimes of “stories” that go along with graphs and relics, but he is not a thief.
4) Like most people in the business, I believe Todd to be a “niche” authenticator. Meaning he has good skills in some specific areas, but not in all, just like anyone else.
I believe when he alledgedly started the crusade against the TPA’s that it was done probably from a combination of spite, as well as a belief he had that it was the right thing for the industry. However, at some point along the line, I think it spiraled out of control for him, and his effort was joined by many that peddle almost nothing but fakes exclusively. I often wonder if he could go back and change the last few years, if he would. I haven’t asked him, but the Todd I knew back in the day, was a good guy.

sounds like some great experiences...I certainly respect your opinion Mike

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

Can't speak about this Mantle, but I do question your line "What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake?" because I vehemently disagree with it. I bought a Ted Wms signed bat from him a couple years ago. Maybe a year later, I posted the bat on this forum, and several called it out as bad, and showed me why. I called Todd, told him many told me it was bad, and the first thing he said was "I'm really sorry, send it back immediately."

Is he perfect? No, but as navarro said, nobody is. I find him, in my conversations and transactions with him, to be very honest.

Ken

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Can't speak about this Mantle, but I do question your line "What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake?" because I vehemently disagree with it. I bought a Ted Wms signed bat from him a couple years ago. Maybe a year later, I posted the bat on this forum, and several called it out as bad, and showed me why. I called Todd, told him many told me it was bad, and the first thing he said was "I'm really sorry, send it back immediately."

Is he perfect? No, but as navarro said, nobody is. I find him, in my conversations and transactions with him, to be very honest.

Ken

I would give the man props in that case...nicely done, but shouldn't the self proclaimed best authenticator in the world know a thing about Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams before he puts his name behind it. Just one mans opinion.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I would give the man props in that case...nicely done, but shouldn't the self proclaimed best authenticator in the world know a thing about Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams before he puts his name behind it. Just one mans opinion.

Well, I don't know where that quote came from, he's certainly never said anything like that to me, nor has he even showed that kind of attitude. However, I do agree he should be better at these big names.

Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

Chuck is absolutely correct. No one has more stories than Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Below is what Mueller wrote about the below wife-signed Willie Mays sig.

Todd wrote "I got Willie Mays in person at the Portland International Airport on Sept 8, 1988 and Willie signed on my shoulder."

MaysSecMueller.jpg

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Chuck is absolutely correct. No one has more stories than Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Below is what Mueller wrote about the below wife-signed Willie Mays sig.

Todd wrote "I got Willie Mays in person at the Portland International Airport on Sept 8, 1988 and Willie signed on my shoulder."

Attachment 92518

This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro and big Dave and earlywynnfan, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

Another poster said something I take offense to and it's the generalization that people who profess their religion publicly are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it because he never forces it on anybody.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

I take offense to the generalization that people who profess their religion are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it.

I have the exact screen shot when Todd "Da Man" Mueller wrote that claim about the Willie Mays wife-signed sig.

And, Travis, you're the one that first called him "Da Man."

Next, Travis, you'll try to defend Mueller's claim about the Derek Jeter forgery he sold.

[David Atkatz]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

No, not Todd "Da Man" Mueller?"

Say it ain't so.....

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

lol David, classic Todd story.......Let's all pray.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

Sounds like a true horror story...

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

Ken

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

Ken

Here's the FDC:



And here's the catalog page:



Note that the Karloff is identical. The Frye is almost identical--there are two differences. On the cover the inscription is to Saul (on the RR piece it's to Sam), and the character name "Igor" has been added to the FDC. My interpretation is that in order to match the Karloff--mentioning his most famous character--the forger had Frye mention his character in the movie. Now, most people think of Dr. Frankenstein's hunchbacked assistant as "Igor," but in actuality, the character Frye played was called "Fritz." Frye would certainly have known that!

The kicker, though, is the date of cancellation on the FDC--Halloween, 1944. Frye died on November 7, 1943.

When I saw this piece in Mueller's auction catalog, I noticed the disparity in dates immediately. I called Mueller, and he told me a cock-and-bull story about the cover being signed well in advance of the cancellation date.

I fell for it, and ignored the "Igor" discrepancy as well. Why? It was the usual collector's malady. I wanted the piece to be real.

So, about a year later, after posting the cover on the net, I was contacted by a fellow horror collector who sent me the RR page. I presented this to Mueller. He assured me the cover was real, and told me he would refund my money, and cut the autographs apart (to obviate the postmark problem), and sell them.

A few years later, I noticed the Frye signature being offered on eBay. I contacted the seller, presented all the information, except where I had obtained the cover. I asked him where he got the autograph. Yep, that's right.

(He got his money back from Mueller, too.)

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

Ken

Ken,

He cut them up and sold them because he could. That shows the character of the individual. I'm sure he then prayed about it. That's how he does it.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by travrosty;

I agree with Mr. Navarro

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us

Mike

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us

Mike

Nice,,,

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us

Mike

agreed.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro and big Dave and earlywynnfan, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

Another poster said something I take offense to and it's the generalization that people who profess their religion publicly are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it because he never forces it on anybody.

I'm lying? Really?

MaysWifeSignedMueller.jpg

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I'm lying? Really?

Attachment 93001

yes, you are . the one i showed is the one at the airport, with dimaggio, not the one you showed, he never claimed that that was the one he got signed at the airport. i showed the one he got signed at the airport. he only claimed that the one he got at the airport looked like the willie mays you didn't like, that is all.

i never claimed you lied by claiming he said he got an airport signature of mays, just that the one you didnt like was that same airport mays signature. that's where the lie comes in, because it's not, the airport mays signature is a different one that mueller only said LOOKED LIKE the mays you were panning.

This is the mays signature he was talking about, at the airport with dimaggio, when he met them in person. he still has this autograph because it is sentimental.

when he said that willie gave him a wife signature, he was talking about his observation that that signature looked like the other one, so if the other one was a wife signature, then the one he got in person must be a wife signature also. (sarcasm to prove a point). where is dimaggio on the other piece? not there because he wasn't talking about that one when he mentioned getting mays AND dimaggio.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

yes, you are . the one i showed is the one at the airport, with dimaggio, not the one you showed, he never claimed that that was the one he got signed at the airport. i showed the one he got signed at the airport. he only claimed that the one he got at the airport looked like the willie mays you didn't like, that is all.

i never claimed you lied by claiming he said he got an airport signature of mays, just that the one you didnt like was that same airport mays signature. that's where the lie comes in, because it's not, the airport mays signature is a different one that mueller only said LOOKED LIKE the mays you were panning.

This is the mays signature he was talking about, at the airport with dimaggio, when he met them in person. he still has this autograph because it is sentimental.

when he said that willie gave him a wife signature, he was talking about his observation that that signature looked like the other one, so if the other one was a wife signature, then the one he got in person must be a wife signature also. (sarcasm to prove a point). where is dimaggio on the other piece? not there because he wasn't talking about that one when he mentioned getting mays AND dimaggio.

Now that "Todd Mueller" is a member of this site, maybe he can respond.

I'll be waiting....

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I'm lying? Really?

Attachment 93001

As an outside observer, I don't read this as he's talking about that Willie Mays auto. Did he come out and say he got the actual disputed auto in the airport?

Ken

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

As an outside observer, I don't read this as he's talking about that Willie Mays auto. Did he come out and say he got the actual disputed auto in the airport?

Ken

no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

But I do know when someone is lying, which seems to be the norm for Mueller.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

Maybe Todd Mueller, who joined Net54 three days ago, can give us his usual long-winded explanation of that Willie Mays wife-signed signature he sold.