assault weapon ban again

[barrysloate]

Clayton, I left this discussion because I don't really think you guys are willing to listen to other opinions. You all have your minds made up, and when somebody disagrees with you you don't really hear them. You simply say they are wrong. There's no give and take, no real discussion at all, so I won't waste my time with it. And yes, I disagree with a whole lot of the specious arguments in this post but I choose to continue to stay out. Please don't send any questions my way because I won't be answering them.

[drc]

I (probably obviously) disagree with Clayton on the gun issue, but agree that if prisoners are going to be re-introduced into society in the future you should work to make them ready for society, address their drug/psychological etc problems. Even if you're an ultra conservative, anti-crime person this only makes common sense. The ex-prisoners could very well move into your and your family's neighborhood. So which would you rather they be released from prison as-- someone who can get a job and integrate into normal society, or some who is even worse than when he went in? Rehabilitating prisoners is good both for the prisoners and society in general-- and the crime rate . . . It's hypocritical and defies common sense to both complain about criminal recidivism while preventing prisoners from getting rehabilitation and treatment.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by drc

I (probably obviously) disagree with Clayton on the gun issue, but agree that if prisoners are going to be re-introduced into society in the future you should work to make them ready for society, address their drug/psychological etc problems. Even if you're an ultra conservative, anti-crime person this only makes common sense. The ex-prisoners could very well move into your and your family's neighborhood. So which would you rather they be released from prison as-- someone who can get a job and integrate into normal society, or some who is even worse than when he went in? Rehabilitating prisoners is good both for the prisoners and society in general-- and the crime rate . . . It's hypocritical and defies common sense to both complain about criminal recidivism while preventing prisoners from getting rehabilitation and treatment.

Thanks David, I agree with this 100%.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

In the recent thread regarding "our open forum" on the main page, I was a bit suprised at the resistance I recieved by just saying "long live the first amendment". I was told my understanding of the first amendment was as "limited" as my understanding of the second amendment. I was also singled out for mentioning the word "God" one time, even though it was in the context of "natural, God given rights".

This made me realize that many people clearly have different opinions on what the Constitution means, and/or what it WAS MEANT to mean.

How "conditioned" are you?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ebudnWlh4


I hope that before anyone blasts me, that you watch this. It is an hour and a half film *all credits for this film belong to Larken Rose*. Watch it when you are bored, or, when you want to have a deeper understanding of what the Constitution was MEANT to be.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Runscott]

Clayton, you have the right to say anything you want in an internet forum, subject to Leon's restrictions, which I think are extremely fair and prudent.

But you also have to realize that forum posters come in all sorts of flavors. There are a few who sit around quietly with a bug up their @ss because of something you typed that offended them, perhaps months ago, and perhaps totally inadvertently - join the club of those who have accidentally offended Adam at some point. I never did figure out what I did to piss him off, but it's been too much effort trying to get back in his good graces.

I'll go down in flames defending someone's right to say what they want, provided they don't call names or go overboard insulting my intelligence...or anyone else's. I guess that's the Libertarian in me, so you know what my thoughts are regarding the Constitution.

I have a TON of friends on this forum, so I am proof that speaking your mind works just fine - keep it up.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Clayton, you have the right to say anything you want in an internet forum, subject to Leon's restrictions, which I think are extremely fair and prudent.

But you also have to realize that forum posters come in all sorts of flavors. There are a few who sit around quietly with a bug up their @ss because of something you typed that offended them, perhaps months ago, and perhaps totally inadvertently - join the club of those who have accidentally offended Adam at some point. I never did figure out what I did to piss him off, but it's been too much effort trying to get back in his good graces.

I'll go down in flames defending someone's right to say what they want, provided they don't call names or go overboard insulting my intelligence...or anyone else's. I guess that's the Libertarian in me, so you know what my thoughts are regarding the Constitution.

I have a TON of friends on this forum, so I am proof that speaking your mind works just fine - keep it up.

I agree with you, and I actually don't hold a grudge with Adam or anyone else for that matter, simply because I believe in freedom of speech I can respect anyone's opinion regardless of whether I agree with it or not. If people want to hold a grudge with me, I'm ok with it.

I've made plenty of friends on this board, and value being a part of Net54. I know this is a vintage baseball card forum, but I also think it's healthy for us to be able to discuss what is going on in the world. Especially in these trying times.

I just hope people are awake, because if this country is ever going to "fix itself" the first step (in my opinion) is to understand why the problems are happening. The next step is to put our petty differences aside and work together for solutions. We need leaders who have our best intentions at heart, and leaders who the children (tomorrows future) can look up to.

And when it comes to our freedoms and liberties, we all have the same things at stake. That video is important.

Sincerely, Clayton

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

In the recent thread regarding "our open forum" on the main page, I was a bit suprised at the resistance I recieved by just saying "long live the first amendment". I was told my understanding of the first amendment was as "limited" as my understanding of the second amendment. I was also singled out for mentioning the word "God" one time, even though it was in the context of "natural, God given rights".

This made me realize that many people clearly have different opinions on what the Constitution means, and/or what it WAS MEANT to mean.

How "conditioned" are you?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_pfgt6R7S8

I hope that before anyone blasts me, that you watch this. It is an hour and a half film *all credits for this film belong to Larken Rose*. Watch it when you are bored, or, when you want to have a deeper understanding of what the Constitution was MEANT to be.

Sincerely, Clayton

Clayton, I don't think people were intentionally trying to blast you, it's just that your viewpoints tend toward the extreme. I honestly can't dedicate 90 minutes of my time to watching a video that will presumably be nothing more than right-wing propaganda. But I can tell you that throughout American history, there have been politicians and judges who have held a very strict and literal view of the constitution, and those who view its application in more practical terms.

Point being that it's simply hard to govern in the context of rigid ideology. Put aside your arguments of "freedom" for a second, and try to view the other side of the gun control debate - America is one of the very few developed countries without much gun control, and the murder rate is more than double that of other countries. It's hard to be free if you're dead. Meanwhile the countries with lax control like South Africa also suffer from a very high murder rate.

I don't think that's ideally how a society ought to function. But it is how societies function without gun control. Asking them to function otherwise goes against human nature - people who own guns are far more likely to kill themselves as well as other people. So just realize that there is another side of things, call it the "social contract", if you will, that says, although we would like to be free in the truest sense of the word, there are compromises that need to be made for the well-being of our society.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I decided to take a break reading about all the constitutional and religious stuff and take my new 4 wheel drive ATV for a spin......

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Scott, I appreciate the support.

cysemour, I knew you wouldn't watch the film The funny thing about it, is that I am a registered Democrat. So much for the "extreme right wing gun nut" theory And, I am not "extreme" at all, I've never even been to a "protest" before

I admit, I don't feel I identify with either Democrat or Republican 100%, I think I will label myself an "Independant" from now on. I will vote for someone based on their "values" and not because someone belongs to a particular party.The "two party system" keeps the country divided, and people no longer are willing to hold someone accountable if they belong to "their party", which is truly shameful.

The video is non-partisan, you may want to give it a look.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

That was funny David

Don't hurt yourself on that thing

Sincerely, Clayton

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Thanks Scott, I appreciate the support.

cysemour, I knew you wouldn't watch the film The funny thing about it, is that I am a registered Democrat. So much for the "extreme right wing gun nut" theory And, I am not "extreme" at all, I've never even been to a "protest" before

I admit, I don't feel I identify with either Democrat or Republican 100%, I think I will label myself an "Independant" from now on. I will vote for someone based on their "values" and not because someone belongs to a particular party.The "two party system" keeps the country divided, and people no longer are willing to hold someone accountable if they belong to "their party", which is truly shameful.

The video is non-partisan, you may want to give it a look.

Sincerely, Clayton

Ninety minutes for a homemade video is a lot to ask, even a non-partisan one.

Never would have guessed you were a registered Democrat, lol. The two-party system probably does keep the country divided, our system is unlike most democracies were there are many different parties and parties are able to combine votes to form a coalition.

One thing I will say is that too often people belong to a political party and are simply told what to think by the leaders of that political party. At times that can be good, but other times it can be bad. For instance, Republicans not believing in global warming despite the overwhelming scientific evidence, or Democratic support for some failed goverment programs like school busing, ethanol, etc.

[esd10]

the problem is with the new proposed ban it will not just take so called assault rifles out of our hands but they are going after anything with a clip/magazine

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Clayton, I left this discussion because I don't really think you guys are willing to listen to other opinions. You all have your minds made up, and when somebody disagrees with you you don't really hear them. You simply say they are wrong. There's no give and take, no real discussion at all, so I won't waste my time with it. And yes, I disagree with a whole lot of the specious arguments in this post but I choose to continue to stay out. Please don't send any questions my way because I won't be answering them.

Thanks for your response Barry

I'm willing to listen to everyone's opinions, and I respect your position. I won't send any questions your way. I try to always stay open minded about everything, and I know this is a touchy subject.

Hope all is well with you-

Sincerely, Clayton