Chicago Union Giants Negro Postcard

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mannybb24

Scott, you are right, that is Will Horn standing next to Jack Johnson. I'm pretty sure Horn is wearing a Leland Giants uniform so you can make an educated guess that he was probably on loan the day they took this picture
.....

Steve

Steve, do you feel sure that is Topeka Jack Johnson? I think it does look similar to the guy labeled 'Chappie' Johnson and then later 'Topeka' Jack Johnson in the 1905 Union Giants postcard, but I never got how anyone was so certain that one was Jack Johnson. He was basically a Kansas City guy and tied closely to business in both the Kansas and Missouri cities, and I haven't seen any evidence that he played anywhere else.

If this really is him, then it's the best photo we have of 'Topeka Jack' Johnson.

Edited to add: ...and also of Will Horn, and possibly Joe Greene as well. That's arguably best-existing-photos of three better-than-average black players, and we haven't even i.d'd the rest of the team yet.

[mannybb24]

Scott
I never feel good about my id's.
I remembered Agate Type did an article/blog about Topeka Jack and a Union Giants photo awhile back so I went back to find it.
After comparing the two photos they had plus seamheads database shows another headshot of what they identify as Johnson, I came to conclusion in my mind that it was him.
Is it 100% definitely him? I wish I can say for certain but I can't but if this is really the 1907 team, there's a really good chance that it is him.

By the way, the guy with the mustache is George Hopkins.

Steve

[Runscott]

Gary simply stated that Topeka Jack was in the 1905 photo - he didn't explain his reasoning. I asked him a year or so back if he had any clear images of Johnson, and the ones on his website were it.

Also, the images of Johnson with the KC,KS Giants aren't clear enough to use as i.d.'s. I even looked up photos of the fight between Jack Johnson and 'Topeka' Jack Johnson at Leavenworth prison, and those were inconclusive as well.

As much as 'Topeka' Jack contributed to 'The Freeman', you'd think there would be a photo of him in one of the issues.

[Runscott]

Here is the 'Johnson' from the 1907-ish postcard, next to the two images from the 1905 Chi Union Giants that Gary i.d.'s as Topeka Jack. I'm not seeing a match.

I will do some research and revisit this - it's going to take microfiche research in a few small-town midwest libraries, but it's fairly easy to nail down this stuff if you have the time and patience.

[Runscott]

Just for grins, here are the only two photos I know of, from November 25, 1920, when Jack Johnson boxed two matches in Leavenworth prison. I believe the first photo shows him fighting 'Topeka Jack' Johnson, with his other opponent (Frank Owens) standing to the right. The photo to the right shows him with Owens as well. But I could have Topeka Jack and Owen switched Johnson fought Owens first, and beat him up badly, so it doesn't make sense that he would be standing around for the other fight. According to the papers, Owens weighed 227 pounds, and Topeka Jack Johnson weighed 210.

(This occurred Thanksgiving Day, 1920, whereas the postcard images were taken 13 years earlier).

Topeka Jack Johnson, whose name, wrote Mark Ribowsky in "A Complete History of the Negro Leagues, 1884 to 1955," "wasn't Jack Johnson at all until he stole it from the mountainous black prizefighter who won the heavyweight title on the day after Christmas in 1908."

Topeka Jack was a prizefighter, too, albeit one of limited success in the ring. The two Johnsons also knew each other, as Topeka Jack was described by the Leavenworth Times in a Nov. 25, 1920, story as a former sparring partner of the champ.

[mannybb24]

This is the headshot from SeamHeads:

[mannybb24]

I don't have anything else to add right now other than I do know who the proud new owner of this postcard is and I have just sent him an email to see what his thoughts are.
And no, he is not a member of this board so that is why we have not heard from the winner as of yet but I'll let you know if he knows any new details about the piece as soon I can.

Steve

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mannybb24

This is the headshot from SeamHeads:

That looks like the same guy from the recent ebay postcard. But again - I would want to know 'why' they decided it was Johnson. I'm sure there's some good logic, but I haven't seen it. Simply searching for the word 'Topeka' at Seamheads.com yielded nothing. How did you locate this photo?