The T206 "Exclusive 12" of the 460-Only series

[atx840]

Ill take that bet Ted.

Let me share some more data which is till, just theoretical but please check it out and consider it as I have with your 12 sheet theory. I can not explain every situation but a good majority of the 460 series breaks down into 34 possible groupings.

I can also show why certain cards are excluded form certain backs. You need to see it holistically. Lenox is simple,

Here is BL460.



Here is P460F25 in two prints, the second run I believe swapped out Ames for Dougherty (just my theory based on looking across all 460 brands).

Each 28 group can combine with the 6 subgroup as well as the 21 subgroup combined with the 13 subgroup = 34

[atx840]

Here is another neat one Ted

Lets take Johnny's favourite subsets the Yellow Brown scraps.

These yellow browns are interesting as they have F30 backs but never were intended to be printed with this back. They don't exist. The reason is they were supposed to be overprinted with F42 but never made it that far.

If you look at the series we find several 28 groupings used, one is the example I used called Group1A. Take that group and combine it with the 6 SuperPrints you get 34 cards. 28/28 are found as a yellow brown scrap, no exceptions to any other F30,F25, F42 player out there. Out of the 6 SuperPrints 5 have been found as a yellow brown scrap, missing only Chase Dark Cap.

It makes sense that all sheets using this combination of F30 were used for the F42OP run and one full sheet ended up being scrapped to what we now get as the yellow brown scrap subset.

[tedzan]

Chris

That's just a partial list of the 350/460 subjects with the SWEET CAP Factory 30 backs (that were not issued).

All 63 subjects from this series are found with the SWEET CAP Factory 42 overprint. So, I do not understand your point of referring to a partial list of the color-less scraps ?


TED Z

[tedzan]

Chris

A picture is worth a 1000 words............









TED Z

[toppcat]

Ted that top row almost looks panoramic...

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Ted that top row almost looks panoramic...

Dave

"Panoramic".....is a dramatic description of this 12-card strip.....I like it

Best regards,

TED Z

[atx840]

SC560F30 has 52 cards in it. All of them are found in the 109 F42OP subset.

Left over are 57 F30 cards that were overprinted but never released into the wild as F30 cards. This breaks down into two 28 print groups with one card being swapped out at a second printing (Ames with Dougherty) giving you 57 cards.

These two 28 base groups are used multiple times throughout the 460 series for different backs in combination with the SP and your Exclusive 12.

One of those groups of 28, not coincidentally is made up of ALL the known yellow brown scraps + the 6 SuperPrints.

NONE of the other 28+Dougherty cards have been found in a scrap form. This leads me to believe that the scraps that are found are linked, likely on one sheet.

[tedzan]

Chris

Basically speaking, your premise falls apart on these two fronts......

1st.....28 color-less subjects from the 350/460 series may exist for now, but there will be more found in the future.

2nd.....surveys show that the 6 super-prints were Double-Printed on sheets of PIEDMONT 460 F25 & F42, POLAR BEAR, etc.


TED Z

[atx840]

Ted,

1st, Maybe they will show up and if they do, they will be from the second group of F30 cards not found in the wild that I listed. I doubt they will show up, as all known examples are from one group of 28. You would think at least one from the other group would have been found by now. Maybe Dougherty is out there.

2nd, I think you are missing the point Ted. Yes SP can be double printed. Any of the 34 slots on a sheet can be filled with any of the 6 SPs in any combination.

Take 28 from a group, remove 6 and add in two sets of the 6 SP and you still get 34 cards on your sheet but now the SP are double printed. Are some of the 28 I listed SIGNIFICANTLY harder to find, maybe they were short printed because of this.

Maybe the Exclusive 12 were printed this way, but not on a 12 card sheet.

I can break down every 460 series back into 34 from combinations of 28 & 6 groupings and 21 & 13, I just can not 100% say how the printers arranged those groupings on the sheets. Of course there are anomalies to be solved but we will get there.

[tedzan]

Scot Reader in his book "Inside T206" estimates that approx. 1.6 Million T206's are presently in circulation. If this is so (and, I think it is a fair guesstimate) then, we could
reasonably extrapolate that American Lithographic (ALC) printed and issued at least 10 - 20 Million T206's.

To produce this volume of cards in just 2 years, ALC must of printed T206's in sheets of 100+ cards. To think of card sheets comprised of anything less than 100+ cards is
absolutely impractical (and, I've been guilty of this with my suggestion of 36-card sheets). Other's here have suggested 34-card sheets, which are even more preposterous.

Now, two independent sources have informed us that the printer's standard size cardboard sheet was 18" x 24" (circa 1908-1911 era). Furthermore, research has indicated
the track width of lithographic printing presses of that era were designed to accomodate these standard size sheets. Presented here are the Exclusive 12 subjects filling out
an entire 18" x 24" standard sheet comprising of 108 cards.















TED Z

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Scot Reader in his book "Inside T206" estimates that approx. 1.6 Million T206's are presently in circulation. If this is so (and, I think it is a fair guesstimate) then, we could
reasonably extrapolate that American Lithographic (ALC) printed and issued at least 10 - 20 Million T206's.

To produce this volume of cards in just 2 years, ALC must of printed T206's in sheets of 100+ cards. To think of card sheets comprised of anything less than 100+ cards is
absolutely impractical (and, I've been guilty of this with my suggestion of 36-card sheets). Other's here have suggested 34-card sheets, which are even more preposterous.

Now, two independent sources have informed us that the printer's standard size cardboard sheet was 18" x 24" (circa 1908-1911 era). Furthermore, research has indicated
the track width of lithographic printing presses of that era were designed to accomodate these standard size sheets. Presented here are the Exclusive 12 subjects filling out
an entire 18" x 24" standard sheet comprising of 108 cards.















TED Z

Hi Ted,

Is this how you suppose that they sheet would be laid out? If so, doesn't this seem to contradict the fact that we see many more same name top bottom miscuts than those with two different names on top & bottom? It seems to make more sense that each player was laid out vertically in rows of 3. Perhaps with 5 subjects vertically per sheet, which would make for a length of 15 cards (perhaps by 10 cards width-wise for sheets of 150)? I haven't even scratched the surface in terms of the amount of research that you have done, just throwing out an idea...

Thanks,

Steve

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Hi Ted,

Is this how you suppose that they sheet would be laid out? If so, doesn't this seem to contradict the fact that we see many more same name top bottom miscuts than those with two different names on top & bottom?

Steve

With all due respect....I'm confused with this first statement of yours ? This simulated sheet illustrates that the SAME subjects are vertically arranged; therefore,
if any of these 12 are miscut the same name will appear top and bottom.

So, where is the "contradiction" ?

Originally Posted by wolf441

It seems to make more sense that each player was laid out vertically in rows of 3. Perhaps with 5 subjects vertically per sheet, which would make for a length of 15 cards (perhaps by 10 cards width-wise for sheets of 150)? I haven't even scratched the surface in terms of the amount of research that you have done, just throwing out an idea...

Please realize this....I have singled out this group of 12 subjects (from the 460-only series) because the pattern and availibility of their T-brand advertising backs are
different from their "cousins" in the 460-only series with respect to AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, red HINDU, and SWEET CAP 460 (factory 42) backs. In my opinion, this is
an exclusive group of 12 subjects in the T206 set.

Regarding my thinking on the 150 and 350 series cards' sheet arrangements, refer to my thread titled...."Simulated T206 sheets....check them out".


Best regards,

TED Z

[wolf441]

Thanks Ted,

I guess I was confused by the way the cards are laid out on the thread pic (for example, Gandil on top of Wheat on top of Gandil). If your theory is that you would have three Gandils in a row vertically, then that makes perfect sense. Thanks for all of the research! I guess I should have figured it out by the title "group of 12" and not "group of 6". I'm a little slow on the uptake, I guess