1879 Dubuque Photo -Will the Real Comiskey please stand up or sit down?

[Directly]

Some are asking me to compare my original 1879 Dubuque baseball photo with another composite type baseball Dubuque team
Photo?

Please don't.----This has always been my major point--?--- Why ?--Because my photo shows Comiskey posed with a couple different "Northwestern League" baseball players from the time. ( hence the different uniforms )

I will admit as mentioned, my example was rather grainy ( that was my bad, since I used a copy) so I have tried to post a better scanned image from the original photo.

A short history of the 1879 Northwestern League:

#1--( Special to the 1910 "Sporting Life" Tom Loftus Dead ) In 1879 Thomas J. Loftus along with Radbourn, Jack Rowe, Jack and Bill Gleason & Cliff Carroll all transferred from Peoria, Illinois (Peoria Reds) to Dubuque to become teammate with "Comiskey" under the management of Ted Sullivan.

The Northwestern league organized Jan 2, 1879 consisted of four different baseball teams, Dubuque, Rockford, who had Jack Rowe & Dave Rowe, Davenport and Omaha. This league lasted only two years.

Can we agree one of these players once owned this rare photo? Both Gleason Brothers were born and died in St Louis, so it's probable this photograph once belong to one of the Gleason Bros. ( hence my referral to William Gleason who later became a career Fireman in St Louis)--his daughter also lived and died in St Louis, its possible there could be relatives
still residing in St Louis. Note: The Gleason Bro. both were born in St louis, played baseball there, worked there and Died in St Louis--see his daughter photo--(Find a Grave Site:Mrs Kathryne Loretta "Kitty" Gleason Riley)

Now back to a Comiskey ear comparisons. I have attached for study another Comiskey photo, showing his head slightly tilted down. Please carefully observe my 19 years old Comiskey photo. In this another example of Comiskey if we could slightly tilt the head back to more of a level position,The ear structures match.
Also Comiskeys other ear in my photo is more vertically straight due to the position of his head and our line of sight. If a computer program could be used to simulate a small head turn , I believe we would see the straight line
ears begin to appear as shown with the other examples with my Comiskey.

Another important point, if several different Comiskey pictures are used for comparison must we not take into account age difference? My 1879 Dubuque photo image of Comiskey shows a lanky 19 year teenage youth. My later 1887Dubuque photo for example he would have been around 27 years old, and with the 1890 era example's he would have been in the 30 plus year range.

Why the no rational to even consider while Comiskey was playing baseball in Dubuque he and his teammates along with Cliff Carroll and Jack Rowe from the Northwestern circuit went to Jordan's Studio to have this 1879 photograph taken?

#2--(-St Louis Globe Democrat Oct 8 1885-) Charles A. Comiskey is the youngest field captain probably of any professional team, and has no superior. He is a good coach and a favorite with his men. He is a native of Chicago, 24 years of age, and took his first lessons in ball-playing as a boy on the vacant lots around the city. His first professional engagement was
with the Dubuque Club, where he played first base with Radbourn, the Gleason brothers, Carroll and other noted players.
This club won the Northwestern League pennant in 1879, and in the same year beat every team that visited Dubuque. Comiskey remained with the club until 1882, when he came to St. Louis. As a first baseman he has few superiors, is a good, free, hard hitter, and an excellent base runner. Under his captaincy the discipline of the Browns has been excellent, and petty
jealousies are unknown.

FACTS:--I have documented #1 a 1910 article, Carroll and Jack Rowe had joined Comiskey and #2 another 1885 article documenting Carroll had played baseball with Comiskey.

Now my question?: Why doesn't the other composite photo show Carroll and Rowe in the photograph--its well documented they were Comiskey's teammate and played baseball with him, especially infielder Ted Sullivan he was on the 1879 team?

This authentic relic of baseball history shows valid facts & points adding up to deserve a thorough " hands on " critique.

Thanks again for your patience to my persistence.--Until.

[packs]

You're rationale isn't clicking with me. You're saying because the Gleason brothers lived in St Louis, they probably owned this photo. How could anyone agree with that?

You say this is a grouping of players from different teams. The men you've identified as belonging to the same team, are wearing different uniforms even amongst themselves.

Lastly, why haven't you used the 1879 composite of the known players in their known uniforms as a source of photo matching?

[bmarlowe1]

Correctly executed ear comparison for Comiskey using photos from similar angle - see post #3 above.

Radbourn comparison - see post #4 above. This one is of course ludicrous.

>> Now back to a Comiskey ear comparisons.....

Your lack of skill in evaluating what you see in a photo is made clear by your ID of Radbourn.

>> Why doesn't the other composite photo show Carroll and Rowe in the photograph

Your photo shows neither.

[Runscott]

It doesn't resemble Comiskey to me, other than both players have heads.

But what's up with your drawing an outline over this guy's ear, that doesn't follow the shape of his ear? Why don't you just paste the real Comiskey's image over your photo?

I'm baffled by this discussion - it's almost as ludicrous as the 'TY COBBS' thread.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Directly

Can we agree one of these players once owned this rare photo? Both Gleason Brothers were born and died in St Louis, so it's probable this photograph once belong to one of the Gleason Bros. ( hence my referral to William Gleason who later became a career Fireman in St Louis)--his daughter also lived and died in St Louis, its possible there could be relatives
still residing in St Louis.

NO, we CANNOT agree on that, not based on the "evidence" you have provided. That one or all of the players later moved to St. Louis, where you found the photo, proves nothing. I have thousands of photographs of ballplayers from other states, none of whom have ever lived in Tennessee. You do realize that these things move by other means than just the back of the family's moving truck, don't you? If you had purchased the photo at an estate sale from someone with the last name Gleason, then you might have a connection, but you would still have to research to be sure that it is the same Gleason family. But you didn't. You purchased it in an antique shop in St. Louis. What city/state you picked the photo up in, (some 115 years after it was produced), has no substantial bearing on its provenance. Pickers have been buying and relocating cabinet photos from their place of origin since loooong before the 1990's.

I was really hoping that your "stay tuned" announcement would produce something in the way of a reasoned argument, but all you have done is re-hash what you said previously and add some name tags to the guys in your photos. Show the photos you are using to compare to yours to arrive at the other ID's, show the "overlay" technique you're supposed to have used, show any other "evidence" you have, show something besides dogged determination, please.

[Directly]

I did paste my Comiskey image with the other 1887 Comiskey Dubuque image-- They match???

1879 Dubuque Nortwestern League photograph with William Gleason and later in 1884. (The Gleason Brothers were both born in ST Louis, played baseball there, worked there and both died there.)

William Gleason was born in St Louis May 12 1858. He began his baseball career in Peoria Illinois (Peoria Reds) along with Tom Loftus, Charles Radbourn, brother Jack Gleason, Cliff Carroll and Jack Rowe. These players transferred early in 1879 to Dubuque to join Charles Comiskey.William Gleason was born in St Louis May 12, 1858 and died there July 21, 1932.

Sitting in both Dubuque Photos first we find the 20 year old little William Gleason with Comiskey for their 1879 Northwestern players Photo and again nine years later as major league players in 1884.

1887 was the last year on record Gleason played with Comiskeys St Louis team batting .336 In 1889 he ended his playing career with Louisville batting .216.

He played 8 years in 795 games with a .275 a lifetime batting average.

[Runscott]

Gleason was 5'8", Comiskey was 6'0".

You have lost your mind.

[sayhey24]

Oh my, this just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
How can you compare heights when in one photo the people are sitting and in the other they are standing?

Also how did "Gleason" in the 1879 photo go from looking like a 14 year old boy to a very mature looking man in the span of just five years?

Greg

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Oh my, this just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
How can you compare heights when in one photo the people are sitting and in the other they are standing?

Not only that, but they're not sitting at the same level! Is Gleason is also standing in a hole in the photo you showed? Because in your photo, your "Gleason" is seated on something lower than your "Comiskey", as evidenced by comparing their belt lines...

[Directly]

+++ Now we have my 1879 Minor league Gleason who resembles Gleason in his St Louis major League 1884 photo--WOW+++
Several have looked at the two different ---DUBUQUE-- photos.They believe the two 1879 Comiskey photos indeed are the same player---thanks this is getting good.

So if Gleason is actually sitting lower thats a great point, meaning he is taller than the photo suggest.

[HRBAKER]

Theatre of the Absurd!
It's been good for a while now.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Directly

+++ Now we have my 1879 Minor league Gleason who resembles Gleason in his St Louis major League 1884 photo--WOW+++
Several have looked at the two different ---DUBUQUE-- photos.They believe the two 1879 Comiskey photos indeed are the same player---thanks this is getting good.

It's a one-man 'Cobb & Edwards' show.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Directly

Several have looked at the two different ---DUBUQUE-- photos.They believe the two 1879 Comiskey photos indeed are the same player

We don't know who "they" are, and in any case as anyone who is actually knowledgable about this subject will tell you, that means very little. Finding a person in an old photos that (to some) resembles a famous person is a very common occurrence. You certainly have succeeded in taking it to an absurd level.