What do you think of this Heritage offering?

[travrosty]

Maybe they could DOUBLE ban me? If they really wanted to punish me, they could reinstate my account!

I also got correspondence from a long time collector, with decades of experience, and he has big concerns over this ball also, the uniformity in the spacing, and start - stop points of the signatures, the green ink, the babe ruth signature, no one signing on the sweet spot. And then there are the signatures themselves.

It just doesn't seem to add up. the contrivance of someone putting the positions down on the baseball, made even more suspicious because it was one of the ballplayers who supposedly wrote the positions down. Doesn't he know the positions of the people signing when he is on the team? And how does the authenticators know that the positions were inscribed by Combs hand? Not enough to go by!

the person who contacted me loves these old baseballs and won't be bidding on it either.

I hear a big name in baseball autographs doesn't like it either and will make it be known soon.

[RichardSimon]

Double banning,,, ouch, does that include 20 lashes?? .

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Double banning,,, ouch, does that include 20 lashes?? .

maybe stoning by baseball, they got a couple now they aren't doing anything with.

[dgo71]

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I've never really participated in auctions from the larger houses and I am wondering, point blank, who can you trust? I know Coaches Corner is downright laughable (how they are allowed to even continue operating is beyond me) and I see many auctions reviews in SCD for Heritage, Kevin Savage, etc. In fact I just read an article on this '27 Yanks ball and the story was it was part of Earle Combs' personal collection and there was some provenance with it to that effect. However, if something like this Yanks ball is questioned by people whose opinions I trust immensely, it makes me wonder what type of work the auction houses are doing to prevent themselves from selling forgeries. Are there any auction houses that are unquestionably trustworthy?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I've never really participated in auctions from the larger houses and I am wondering, point blank, who can you trust? I know Coaches Corner is downright laughable (how they are allowed to even continue operating is beyond me) and I see many auctions reviews in SCD for Heritage, Kevin Savage, etc. In fact I just read an article on this '27 Yanks ball and the story was it was part of Earle Combs' personal collection and there was some provenance with it to that effect. However, if something like this Yanks ball is questioned by people whose opinions I trust immensely, it makes me wonder what type of work the auction houses are doing to prevent themselves from selling forgeries. Are there any auction houses that are unquestionably trustworthy?

The argument often made here, which is a right and righteous one, is that these third party authenticators are letting auction houses do less and less in terms of determining authenticity on their own. TPAs are here to stay, but a respectable house should be willing and able to give its own opinion first and foremost. Leland's is one house that gets love around here for doing their own work and not relying on others. Heritage clearly wants big dollar items to push, and a TPA cert let's them do exactly that without worrying about the item itself. That is, until someone points out that an item is demonstrably fake (the proof for which is not very often available).

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I've never really participated in auctions from the larger houses and I am wondering, point blank, who can you trust? I know Coaches Corner is downright laughable (how they are allowed to even continue operating is beyond me) and I see many auctions reviews in SCD for Heritage, Kevin Savage, etc. In fact I just read an article on this '27 Yanks ball and the story was it was part of Earle Combs' personal collection and there was some provenance with it to that effect. However, if something like this Yanks ball is questioned by people whose opinions I trust immensely, it makes me wonder what type of work the auction houses are doing to prevent themselves from selling forgeries. Are there any auction houses that are unquestionably trustworthy?

All mainstream legitimate auction houses want to offer good product. if it comes with a TPA cert, you have to look at who certed it and their qualifications, as well as get second and third opinions from others that you trust in the hobby. I believe Heritage should do all they can to date these baseballs and pull out the bad weeds BEFORE they ever get to the TPA.

It's up to each auction house to do some due diligence. for some that due diligence is relying entirely on the TPA's. sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. No auction house is immune, but some seem to be in the spotlight more than others and maybe they had a hand in their own demise in that regard by not being careful enough and not getting more opinions.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I've never really participated in auctions from the larger houses and I am wondering, point blank, who can you trust? I know Coaches Corner is downright laughable (how they are allowed to even continue operating is beyond me) and I see many auctions reviews in SCD for Heritage, Kevin Savage, etc. In fact I just read an article on this '27 Yanks ball and the story was it was part of Earle Combs' personal collection and there was some provenance with it to that effect. However, if something like this Yanks ball is questioned by people whose opinions I trust immensely, it makes me wonder what type of work the auction houses are doing to prevent themselves from selling forgeries. Are there any auction houses that are unquestionably trustworthy?

Derek,
FWIW, you just mentioned an extremely trustworthy, long-time dealer in this hobby, Kevin Savage. That being said, Kevin's forte is not high end game used memorabilia.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Derek,
FWIW, you just mentioned an extremely trustworthy, long-time dealer in this hobby, Kevin Savage. That being said, Kevin's forte is not high end game used memorabilia.

I just re-read my post and I see how that was confusing, but I was not trying to lump Savage, nor Heritage for that matter, in with Coaches Corner. I was only trying to state that I see a lot of auction adverts in SCD and when something as notable as this '27 Yanks ball was called into question, it made me wonder how reputable any one of the houses really is. Sorry for the confusion, no offense intended towards Savage or anyone else. I have never dealt with auction houses, so I'm trying to find out from the people here who have expertise in the matter, who are good ones to deal with. Thanks for the info!

[shelly]

David, I did not say the your opinion or Jim's is not useful. I was saying I appreciated what Scott brought to the table. If you have a problem with that I really do not care.
I never saw where Jim said the Gehrig was good. I know that both you and Chris like it. I do not. Now who is really going to tell us who is right and who is wrong. I think that the ball is bad. You and Chris thinks it just fine. Now who is right and who is wrong? We can go back and forth and nothing is going to be solved. I have gone over six months not fighting with you and it stops here.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by travrosty

If they really wanted to punish me, they could reinstate my account!

Nice one, that one made me smile

Mike

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

Nice one, that one made me smile

Mike

+1

[mighty bombjack]

There is no way I would pay that price for that or any ball, even if I had the money to spend. The best Yankee ball? Clearly that is an opinion, and many will disagree.

Real autos? Clearly that is an opinion as well, and many are disagreeing. Seems like JSA and PSA have deemed it real, as has one of the five people Richard polled? Is that like the one dentist that doesn't recommend Trident gum to their patients that chew gum?

My point is, all we have about those signatures are opinions, and opinions of people giving the opinions. Somebody paying over 100 K for a baseball with writing on it needs to be comfortable with what they are buying.

I'm more interested in the removed lots that Travis posted. We're they deemed bad after being posted to the auction, or what? We'll never know I guess.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

My point is, all we have about those signatures are opinions, and opinions of people giving the opinions. Somebody paying over 100 K for a baseball with writing on it needs to be comfortable with what they are buying.

I'm more interested in the removed lots that Travis posted. We're they deemed bad after being posted to the auction, or what? We'll never know I guess.

In this hobby someone spending $100K on a ball only has to have a COA from one of the TPA's to be comfortable.
And the reasons for the removal of the two baseballs are already posted on the Hauls of Shame website. The balls were made after the alleged dates of use and signing. That info on the website came from our own Brandon Grunbaum, who knows more about baseballs then anyone that I know.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

In this hobby someone spending $100K on a ball only has to have a COA from one of the TPA's to be comfortable.

That's up to them, isn't it? I think they're crazy, but people spend bigger money than that on things I wouldn't touch all of the time. And there are clearly several people who disagree with those TPAs (though exactly who some of those people are is not at all clear).

I'm glad that, in the case of the balls that went poof, they had to be removed because of iron clad proof and not warring opinions. When all we have is the latter, the "truth" is going to equal perception and perception alone.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

That's up to them, isn't it? I think they're crazy, but people spend bigger money than that on things I wouldn't touch all of the time. And there are clearly several people who disagree with those TPAs (though exactly who some of those people are is not at all clear).

I'm glad that, in the case of the balls that went poof, they had to be removed because of iron clad proof and not warring opinions. When all we have is the latter, the "truth" is going to equal perception and perception alone.

I can assure you that the people (when I ask questions of people, I usually don't turn around and then print their names in a forum) I asked are all very highly regarded in the hobby and one of them is Shelly, who has posted his thoughts on this ball, in this thread, and who at this very moment is trembling at the thought of retribution from Heritage .

[David Atkatz]

Actually, Wayne, we do know. (Thanks, Peter.)

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=16843#more-16843

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...2HaXwJHxUG9LsJ

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Actually, Wayne, we do know. (Thanks, Peter.)

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=16843#more-16843

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...2HaXwJHxUG9LsJ

That is fantastic! Great stuff on the part of Brandon and Peter.

[RichardSimon]

The auction takes place about eight blocks from where I live.
Since I am barred from bidding I wonder if they would let me attend the preview.
I would guess not, since they require ID for admission and I guess that I am on some sh-- list there.