Should Beckett be grading these paper cut outs?

[sbfinley]

I own a couple of these. As a full time student, it is an affordable way for me to acquire and display a period piece of players such as Ed Delehanty or the famed 1890's Baltimore squad. I can understand Dan's displeasure about destroying an intact item in this manner, but as a counter argument it affords collectors without a major budget an avenue to 19th century players and teams. (The price of that New Orleans page, however, is ridiculous.)

[Clutch-Hitter]

What if it was in a PSA holder?

[tschock]

The only minor quibble I have with both the Beckett authentication and the listing is that it is not a guide but a page from the guide. I would like to see Beckett add "Page" at the end of their description on the first line of text on the slab. Similarly for the seller listing the piece. It is not a "card" but a "page" from the guide. Other than that minor point, I don't think there is any deception of misrepresentation of what it is. (I know, that wasn't the original question/concern)

I have a problem "destroying" complete books, but don't have (as much) of a problem pulling pages from incomplete material. So if the guide was already in pieces, pages missing or eaten, etc, I can stomach the removal of additional pages a bit more. Though my "problem" with this directly proportional to the scarcity of an item.

[Clutch-Hitter]

So somebody could send this to Beckett for cross-over:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOE-JACKSON-...item2c6394d8e6

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by tschock

The only minor quibble I have with both the Beckett authentication and the listing is that it is not a guide but a page from the guide. I would like to see Beckett add "Page" at the end of their description on the first line of text on the slab. Similarly for the seller listing the piece. It is not a "card" but a "page" from the guide. Other than that minor point, I don't think there is any deception of misrepresentation of what it is. (I know, that wasn't the original question/concern)

I have a problem "destroying" complete books, but don't have (as much) of a problem pulling pages from incomplete material. So if the guide was already in pieces, pages missing or eaten, etc, I can stomach the removal of additional pages a bit more. Though my "problem" with this directly proportional to the scarcity of an item.

Yes, card in the seller description is the only problem I see. But, I would not buy it.

Joe

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Yes, card in the seller description is the only problem I see. But, I would not buy it.

Joe

That was why I had to look it up on Google for more information. I was pretty sure it was just a book page, but the "card" description kinda threw me at first. I always follow Shoeless Joe cards, and I knew there was no "card" like this of him out there.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I own a couple of these. As a full time student, it is an affordable way for me to acquire and display a period piece of players such as Ed Delehanty or the famed 1890's Baltimore squad. I can understand Dan's displeasure about destroying an intact item in this manner, but as a counter argument it affords collectors without a major budget an avenue to 19th century players and teams. (The price of that New Orleans page, however, is ridiculous.)

You are right. Chopping up a Ty Cobb bat and selling the splinters as part of a card also makes that bat more accessible. In fact, why don't we just do that with EVERY collectible? We could chop up all the T206 Honus Wagner cards while we're at it.

...in a perfect world where I owned all the scissors

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are right. Chopping up a Ty Cobb bat and selling the splinters as part of a card also makes that bat more accessible. In fact, why don't we just do that with EVERY collectible? We could chop up all the T206 Honus Wagner cards while we're at it.

...in a perfect world where I owned all the scissors

I'm also against cutting up stuff to "make it more accessible" That's never made sense to me.
I'd love to own a Ty Cobb bat someday. It will probably never happen.
I'd be ok with owning a Ty Cobb bat card. And could probably get one if I wanted it. But I don't think my level of excitement would be anywhere near finding a whole bat that I could afford.

The flip side is stuff that's already in really bad condition. Like maybe a Cobb bat that spent a few decades in the basement of barn that flooded regularly.

As far as books and magazines go, I bought a bunch of magazines from the former publisher of a nostalgia magazine. He also did a whole book of collected christmas stories and art from the same magazines. Some of what I got were in decent condition, others had been cut up already to make the book and magazines.
There's also a bunch of partial magazines. I'm not really all that against cutting up a magazine that had no covers when he got it and then had an article and a couple ads cut out years before I got it.
One of them sells for about $3 in nice condition. But the ad from 1920 specifically aimed at winning the womens vote sold for something like 20-30.
(If you want a bunch of stuff like that just Email me and I'll make you a great deal)

And the batch of stuff he had, thousands of magazines, rotogravure sections, and books. aside from the roto sections the only bit of sports stuff was a spalding guide cover. Just the cover, and in poor condition at that. I looked for hours for the rest of it

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

The flip side is stuff that's already in really bad condition.
....
There's also a bunch of partial magazines. I'm not really all that against cutting up a magazine that had no covers when he got it and then had an article and a couple ads cut out years before I got it.

Steve, what you say makes perfect sense. We discussed this at length ten years ago when the infamous 'Libertyforall' seller was parting out any Spalding or Reach Guide he could get his hands on. He participated in our discussions and didn't impress anyone.

But he did learn something. Now, if you read the item descriptions for the pages from old books, you'll find that many of them state that the seller only cuts up books that are so beat up that they aren't of value whole. They are lying, but it makes the bidder feel better about bidding.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are right. Chopping up a Ty Cobb bat and selling the splinters as part of a card also makes that bat more accessible. In fact, why don't we just do that with EVERY collectible? We could chop up all the T206 Honus Wagner cards while we're at it.

...in a perfect world where I owned all the scissors

That is a fair argument. In return I would argue that two are far from same in scope. A Spalding Guide, while still very much a part of the hobby's history, is minimal in magnitude. A bat once swung by Ty Cobb, used as a weapon to procure base hits by the most intense character to every play the game, is a relic of the game in its finest sense and should be preserved for the prosperity of the game's history. Collectors have entire runs of Spalding Guides resting on dusty shelves that are but a footnote of their entire collection. Collectors that own a personal artifact from Cobb, Ruth, or Gehrig know that it an important part of the history of baseball. Everything is relative, find me a dealer that will trade a Cobb gamer for a few paperbacks and I'm first in line.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

That is a fair argument. In return I would argue that two are far from same in scope. A Spalding Guide, while still very much a part of the hobby's history, is minimal in magnitude. A bat once swung by Ty Cobb, used as a weapon to procure base hits by the most intense character to every play the game, is a relic of the game in its finest sense and should be preserved for the prosperity of the game's history. Collectors have entire runs of Spalding Guides resting on dusty shelves that are but a footnote of their entire collection. Collectors that own a personal artifact from Cobb, Ruth, or Gehrig know that it an important part of the history of baseball. Everything is relative, find me a dealer that will trade a Cobb gamer for a few paperbacks and I'm first in line.

I didn't say they were equal - you are responding to a straw man, not me.

I don't normally talk from the straw man's perspective, but Scott was implying that neither should be chopped up.

[ethicsprof]

I remember the AAA fiasco from aeons ago, when we discussed it on this board and elsewhere. My problem with slabbing the cut-outs is that many of the
newbies low on funds and knowledge of the hobby's best wares will buy these
catalogue and magazine pieces and think they are really getting something
valuable to the vintage card hobbyist. I think Beckett would do well to continue
doing what it does well and step away from this 'new' activity.
all the best,
barry

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I think Beckett would do well to continue
doing what it does well and step away from this 'new' activity.
all the best,
barry

...it's not book cut-outs
...it's not photographs

...winning arguments with Henry II?

[ethicsprof]

now, if they are in the business of slabbing pieces of the Constitutions of
Clarendon, I will certainly take a stab at purchasing one of those at AAA prices.

all the best,
Barry

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

now, if they are in the business of slabbing pieces of the Constitutions of
Clarendon, I will certainly take a stab at purchasing one of those at AAA prices.

all the best,
Barry

Only board members named Barry would have understood.

Spalding Guide to Becket: "Me - with my delicate skin. I bet you'd never have done the same for me. But - I suppose I have to do this penance and make my peace with you. Hmm. What a strange end to our story."

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I remember the AAA fiasco from aeons ago, when we discussed it on this board and elsewhere. My problem with slabbing the cut-outs is that many of the
newbies low on funds and knowledge of the hobby's best wares will buy these
catalogue and magazine pieces and think they are really getting something
valuable to the vintage card hobbyist. I think Beckett would do well to continue
doing what it does well and step away from this 'new' activity.
all the best,
barry

My thoughts exactly Barry! Thank you kindly!