Probstein123 Still amazed he is in business

[tschock]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I realize this is probably a fruitless response, but one of the greatest downside risks of shilling in any auction system is that you outbid the field and get stuck with your own item. Should that happen on eBay, the actual out of pocket loss is rather minimal, basically just the listing fees (if any) and portion of the final price kept by eBay (around 9%). However, the odds of winning your own lot on eBay are quite low, because you can always retract a bid. So despite any transparency, there is little risk to shilling on eBay.

Conversely, should you outbid the field in an AH auction, your out-of-pocket loss will be much more significant, as you will owe both the hefty consignment fee as well as the bidder's premium. You could easily end up losing 1/3rd of the value of the item in the end. Moreover, it is much harder (if not impossible) to retract a bid.

Ergo, even though eBay may be a little more transparent, overall you are much more likely to be subjected to shilling on eBay than at an AH for the simple reasons that the risk of winning your own lot is much lower due to retraction, and the cost of winning your own lot is much lower than at an AH.

"I realize this is probably a fruitless response" - It is. Providing valid reasons pro AH and anti-ebay are never considered. Higher prices realized through auctions than on ebay are obvious proof of shill bidding (sarcasm). There can be no other explanation (even though many have been offered).

And again you hit on the obvious question/concern that Paul never has addressed. There is little to no downside to shilling on ebay. If you get caught, you get "banned" until you create a new account or get someone else to do your bidding (pun intended). Beyond the token banning by ebay, has anyone ever been prosecuted for any of these nefarious activities? If so, great, and I stand corrected. But if not, then STFU about ebay's "transparency". It is a law with no teeth. Much like "keep right except to pass".

And regarding ebay's so-called transparency,
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html - Often what appears to be shill bidding isn't a violation. If there is evidence of shill bidding, we will take action, which may include listing cancellation or referral to law enforcement. However, our privacy policy prevents us from disclosing the details of our investigation to other members, including the person who reported the issue.

So if someone is banned or an auction is taken down, how does anyone actually know it was because of shill bidding? Or how does anyone know shill bidding is even happening? Ebay basically implies in the first statement that y'all are just stupid buyers and couldn't recognize a shill bidder, or shill bidding isn't going on, which makes transparency a moot point then anyway, right?