Probstein123 Still amazed he is in business

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

there was a thread no more than 2 weeks ago about this. id append to that thread. it may get more attention.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=160673

kevin

I am well aware of that one and all the ones from a while back as well. This pertains to keeping him on the front line as an issue and bad seller

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I am well aware of that one and all the ones from a while back as well. This pertains to keeping him on the front line as an issue and bad seller

If you want people to see "him" as a bad seller, you might want to put his name in the subject line. For many folks who simply read thread titles or don't click on the links (or check this thread months from now when the eBay links are dead), you'd never know what seller you're talking about.

The only reason you can even complain about this is because of the semi-transparent bidding system that ebay employs.

With AHs you can't see anything ... you think this would be more or less attractive to shills?

[chaddurbin]

i was following a '48 signed musial a couple weeks ago, last day bidding it got up to around $320...a pretty good price as prior ones sold for $200-$220. seller cancelled the auction early, next week it was in a probstein auction and ended a couple days ago for $580 . now suddenly 3 more musials has popped up because of this artificially inflated auction. lots more examples like this i've stopped bidding with this guy.

Quan Nguyen

[pepis]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i was following a '48 signed musial a couple weeks ago, last day bidding it got up to around $320...a pretty good price as prior ones sold for $200-$220. seller cancelled the auction early, next week it was in a probstein auction and ended a couple days ago for $580 . now suddenly 3 more musials has popped up because of this artificially inflated auction. lots more examples like this i've stopped bidding with this guy.

What that really means is that he has a strong customer following and they
dont mind spending extra dealing with him instead of venturing with some
unknown source.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by pepis

What that really means is that he has a strong customer following and they
dont mind spending extra dealing with him instead of venturing with some
unknown source.

Buying from Rick is buying from an unknown source. Most of his items are consignments. Items that aren't consignments may be the only ones not being shilled at this point.

I would like to be proven wrong. Can any board member own up to a recent consignment with Rick to which they can provide a testimonial? I'd like to see one higher then usual price that can be proven an honest sale... Anyone?

[Qcards]

I have consigned many items with Rick and he gets good results almost every time.

I had a vintage non sport set sitting in my eBay store for over a year at $999 with lots of low ball offers.

I pulled it and sent it to Rick and in a 7 day auction he got over $1,000 for it. I have no interest in shilling my items, I want them sold.

Not sure why this guy keeps getting bashed, he has been nothing but straight with me.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Buying from Rick is buying from an unknown source. Most of his items are consignments. Items that aren't consignments may be the only ones not being shilled at this point.

I would like to be proven wrong. Can any board member own up to a recent consignment with Rick to which they can provide a testimonial? I'd like to see one higher then usual price that can be proven an honest sale... Anyone?

I will sort through my previous listings and see what I can come up with.

I DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER bid on my own auctions. I had 2 Dan Marinos and 2 Elway Rookies end for $160... I was only asking $60 for the 4 cards locally. I also have had some partial sets that I estimate in the 1500-1800 range end 2500-3200

[ngrow9]

Originally Posted by bubblebathgirl

The only reason you can even complain about this is because of the semi-transparent bidding system that ebay employs.

With AHs you can't see anything ... you think this would be more or less attractive to shills?

I realize this is probably a fruitless response, but one of the greatest downside risks of shilling in any auction system is that you outbid the field and get stuck with your own item. Should that happen on eBay, the actual out of pocket loss is rather minimal, basically just the listing fees (if any) and portion of the final price kept by eBay (around 9%). However, the odds of winning your own lot on eBay are quite low, because you can always retract a bid. So despite any transparency, there is little risk to shilling on eBay.

Conversely, should you outbid the field in an AH auction, your out-of-pocket loss will be much more significant, as you will owe both the hefty consignment fee as well as the bidder's premium. You could easily end up losing 1/3rd of the value of the item in the end. Moreover, it is much harder (if not impossible) to retract a bid.

Ergo, even though eBay may be a little more transparent, overall I believe the risk of shilling is greater on eBay than at an AH for the simple reasons that the risk of winning your own lot is much lower due to retraction, and the cost of winning your own lot is much lower than at an AH.

[ullmandds]

I used to buy from him somewhat regularly...but will definitely think twice about doing so these days.

[CardTarget]

The guy takes GREAT pictures in every one of his auctions. Front pics, back pics, high quality.

It's not his job to police his auctions to make sure that the consigners cousin isn't bidding. That's unrealistic.

He's doing a good job and earning his commission - unless there is evidence that he's directly involved leave the guy alone.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by ngrow9

I realize this is probably a fruitless response, but one of the greatest downside risks of shilling in any auction system is that you outbid the field and get stuck with your own item. Should that happen on eBay, the actual out of pocket loss is rather minimal, basically just the listing fees (if any) and portion of the final price kept by eBay (around 9%). However, the odds of winning your own lot on eBay are quite low, because you can always retract a bid. So despite any transparency, there is little risk to shilling on eBay.

Conversely, should you outbid the field in an AH auction, your out-of-pocket loss will be much more significant, as you will owe both the hefty consignment fee as well as the bidder's premium. You could easily end up losing 1/3rd of the value of the item in the end. Moreover, it is much harder (if not impossible) to retract a bid.

Ergo, even though eBay may be a little more transparent, overall you are much more likely to be subjected to shilling on eBay than at an AH for the simple reasons that the risk of winning your own lot is much lower due to retraction, and the cost of winning your own lot is much lower than at an AH.

"I realize this is probably a fruitless response" - It is. Providing valid reasons pro AH and anti-ebay are never considered. Higher prices realized through auctions than on ebay are obvious proof of shill bidding (sarcasm). There can be no other explanation (even though many have been offered).

And again you hit on the obvious question/concern that Paul never has addressed. There is little to no downside to shilling on ebay. If you get caught, you get "banned" until you create a new account or get someone else to do your bidding (pun intended). Beyond the token banning by ebay, has anyone ever been prosecuted for any of these nefarious activities? If so, great, and I stand corrected. But if not, then STFU about ebay's "transparency". It is a law with no teeth. Much like "keep right except to pass".

And regarding ebay's so-called transparency,
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html - Often what appears to be shill bidding isn't a violation. If there is evidence of shill bidding, we will take action, which may include listing cancellation or referral to law enforcement. However, our privacy policy prevents us from disclosing the details of our investigation to other members, including the person who reported the issue.

So if someone is banned or an auction is taken down, how does anyone actually know it was because of shill bidding? Or how does anyone know shill bidding is even happening? Ebay basically implies in the first statement that y'all are just stupid buyers and couldn't recognize a shill bidder, or shill bidding isn't going on, which makes transparency a moot point then anyway, right?

[tcdyess]

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. I am following an auction from him on a card that I want, but now have no clue whether or not I should bid.... meh.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360586885146...84.m1423.l2649

[smtjoy]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. I am following an auction from him on a card that I want, but now have no clue whether or not I should bid.... meh.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360586885146...84.m1423.l2649

Humm yea I would not be worried bidding on this card..........

Top bidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 136
Items bid on: 92
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 94%

Underbidder-
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 43
Items bid on: 7
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 62%