PM1 Ornate Frame Pinbacks

[ullmandds]

I was thinking similar thought...while the image resembles ruth how do we know for sure it is him?

[glchen]

I think it's Ruth, but I was also wondering if the date was correct. It looks like the same image in the pin as this iconic Ruth photo. Does anyone know the dating for the photo?

[Bicem]

Had no idea there was a Ruth in that set.

I'm sure more date research could be done by looking at uniform styles, would not surprise me at all if 1915 is incorrect.

[ullmandds]

SO comparing to the photo to the pin...what should Ruth's jersey say...Boston?

[drc]

I don't know about the other details, but the guy in the pin is Babe Ruth. It's an issue of famous baseball players, and that certainly ain't Walter Johnson.

[nolemmings]

Perhaps they released these pins over a span of years. I see where one of the Pins (lot #13) is an Evers with Chicago designation-- he hadn't played for the Cubs since 1913. Maybe the pins with no names were issued in different (later) years than those with names.

It does look like Ruth in a Red Sox uniform though. Moreover, Okkonen's uniform database says Boston wore pinstripes when showing "Red Sox" in 1916 and 1917, but plain/solid backgrounds in 1915, and this pin looks to lack pinstripes.

[Jlighter]

I'm curious how much these will sell for. Two at Love of the Game failed to sell.

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lot...s-Johnny-Evers.

http://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lot...s-Frank-Chance

[glchen]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think it's Ruth, but I was also wondering if the date was correct. It looks like the same image in the pin as this iconic Ruth photo. Does anyone know the dating for the photo?

I found the Conlon photo from an old Legendary auction, and according to the auction, the photo is from c.1918. Link

[autograf]

My understanding is that pin was only found in the last 2-3-4 years and was privately sold before it could go to auction. About 6-8 of those in that auction were mine sold to him via an intermediary. I don't see how something like that could be faked or created but nothing's impossible anymore I guess. A very neat pinback. To my knowledge, one of a kind.

[Jlighter]

Looks like Mr. Nash has commented.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=16105#more-16105

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Looks like Mr. Nash has commented.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=16105#more-16105

Now here's a prime example of something we discussed the other day.
-Begin cranky old guy
It's Loupe, not loop. If he's going to hold himself out as a high end expert getting at least the terminology of the tools of the trade right matters.
-End cranky old guy

When will he do the obvious companion article that looks at wether the issue date is solidly 1915 or the set was issued over a period of a few years.

If some of the other photos are Conlons, it should be fairly easy to get dates.

Steve B

[glchen]

It looks like Legendary has updated the description for the PM1 Ruth pin, basically saying that these pins could have been issued over a period of years, so that the Ruth pin could have been issued around 1918, consistent with the Conlon photo that was probably used as the base. They also added some additional authentication info.

I do have a couple of other questions, however. In their decription, Legendary mentions a Bressler PM1 pin, in order to show that other PM1 pins could have been issued after 1915. However, there is no Bressler pin in the Legendary auction or the oldcardboard checklist. Is it known that a Bressler PM1 pin exists? (Scott is also used in the same context, so does Scott also exist?) If these pins do exist, it would go a long ways to show that these pins were issued over a period of years, so that it would be very likely that Ruth was included among them.

Legendary has also seemed to prove that the pin itself is authentic. Still, however, going back to Rob D's post, is it possible to carefully bend the settings on the back of the pin, remove the backing, and replace the photo with another photo?