Auction Houses and blind bidding

Originally Posted by tschock

Paul, So let me ask this. If ebay is more transparent, and these people can be outed (buyers or sellers), what is their actual punishment? So far it seems that they are just "banned" but can obviously open a new account and start the practice again. Apparently many times over from some of the anecdotal evidence already presented. Has anyone on ebay ever been prosecuted for this type of activity? (a sincere, and just curious, question)

If not, then why does it matter how much more transparent ebay is if nothing is really being done about it? We already have a number of cases where an AH was prosecuted for this type of activity, so while they may not be as "transparent" you think they should be, they seem to be held to a higher standard, thus making them more reliable in many collectors' eyes.

As I've said before, transparency, while the only real solution, is only a deterrent. It takes vigilance by the community to really make a change, and that can only happen when they are allowed to see what is going on.

Getting outed for nefarious activities is one reason why certain collectors and scam artists will think twice about doing bad things, as are other repercussions.

It's all about adapting to the current threats and trying to foresee the future ones. Those who are defeatist and say "what's the point?" are of no help here, same goes for the small minded babies (whose comments I fortunately don't have to read thanks to the lovely ignore feature!) who throw their insults because they have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion. Ironic that these are the same people who would benefit from AHs changing the ways they operate to make things safer and better for the hobby.

[TNP777]

The very people you so smugly ignore are among those who have been attempting to have a rational conversation with you. The biting comments and sarcasm come after some (me included) become exasperated when you so obstinately refuse to accept that others simply don't agree with you.

There has never been a doubt in my mind that you are honestly trying to make the hobby better. However, when you refuse to accept that others may have taken an honest look at your ideas and made an educated decision to stay their own course, you set yourself up for ridicule.

Sadly, the only way you'll be able read my comments are if someone you haven't blacklisted quotes me in entirety. If you hadn't done so you would understand that I (and others) really are after the same thing - a hobby free from greed, corruption and thievery. And once again, I have never invested in any auction house so I have no financial dog in this fight you're involved in.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by TNP777

The very people you so smugly ignore are among those who have been attempting to have a rational conversation with you. The biting comments and sarcasm come after some (me included) become exasperated when you so obstinately refuse to accept that others simply don't agree with you.

There has never been a doubt in my mind that you are honestly trying to make the hobby better. However, when you refuse to accept that others may have taken an honest look at your ideas and made an educated decision to stay their own course, you set yourself up for ridicule.

Sadly, the only way you'll be able read my comments are if someone you haven't blacklisted quotes me in entirety. If you hadn't done so you would understand that I (and others) really are after the same thing - a hobby free from greed, corruption and thievery. And once again, I have never invested in any auction house so I have no financial dog in this fight you're involved in.

I accidentally responded to the wrong post so deleted my post and am responding the same message here....

Well said. He can't blacklist me so he will see your statement. I too think Paul (Hi Paul) has great intentions. I was at lunch with a major auction house executive today discussing this thread. Everyone agrees the intent is a great one. That being said most people, and myself, disagree with Paul for various reasons, none of which are personal. And to think Ebay is safer than an auction house is to bid in means you don't really know the hobby that well. And to date I have never seen a suspected shill situation at an auction house with 79-80 Topps cards.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Leon

And to date I have never seen a suspected shill situation at an auction house with 79-80 Topps cards.

Imagine being a horrible shiller and getting stuck with a $2k Paul Molitor LOL LOL LOL

[lsutigers1973]

Just for full transparency:

[billwaltonsbeard]

thank God those shorts aren't transparent

Leon,

ebay provides systems that AHs can and should try to mimic.

The reason why AHs don't is because they wouldn't make as much money if they did.

The reason why ebay does is because they know the general public wouldn't stand for the kind of vulnerable position that AHs put their buyers in, as they do with blind bidding and payment without protection.

There's clearly no perfect system, there are simply things people can do to try and make the situation better. I hope that AHs start doing these things, and frankly think they will eventually be forced to as recent rulings have indicated.

It's for the good of the hobby.

[thunderdan]

Edited based on pm with leon. Let me be clear about something. Nowhere was I accusing the op of dishonesty. Rather, I was citing a portion of geordie's comment above where he believed op intends to make the hobby better. In my opinion, selling an empty box, wrappers and the gum when he knows full well what is likely to become of them is NOT making the industry better.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by hiyoh

Having any doubts about the OP now? OP is plenty peeved about AHs and dishonesty in the hobby. Apparently he has no trouble selling resealing kits for 1978 Topps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1978-TOPPS-BA...item43bb120b12

WOW!

I can understand the box and even the wrappers, but the gum too? Why would he list the gum? Sure sounds like a resealer's dream lot. I guess the only thing missing are the EX commons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

i would need a lot more evidence than that to accuse the OP of dishonesty. So he has a novelty item from a year he obviously specializes in.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

i would need a lot more evidence than that to accuse the OP of dishonesty. So he has a novelty item from a year he obviously specializes in.

Peter, you need to re-read the previous two posts. Nobody accused the OP of dishonesty.

Novelty item? There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to sell 35 year old gum (the box and wrappers I can understand). To me, that only serves one purpose - for re-sealing wax packs. If you can think of another reason someone would purchase 35 year old gum, please let me know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David he just deleted it, but I certainly interpreted this as such an accusation, why else the juxtaposition?

Originally Posted by TNP777

There has never been a doubt in my mind that you are honestly trying to make the hobby better.


Having any doubts about the OP now? OP is plenty peeved about AHs and dishonesty in the hobby. Apparently he has no trouble selling resealing kits for 1978 Topps.

[CW]

That's pretty sad. I guess one type of dishonesty or scam in the hobby is OK, but others aren't. The seller may claim that selling the gum, box, and wrappers, in and of itself, is not unethical. However, the seller has to know that the buyer's intentions will only lead to another collector being scammed with a resealed pack (from his own beloved set, no less!). How pathetic. All for a few bucks. Simply no excuse.

€hû¢k Wölƒƒ

[tschock]

Originally Posted by bubblebathgirl

As I've said before, transparency, while the only real solution, is only a deterrent. It takes vigilance by the community to really make a change, and that can only happen when they are allowed to see what is going on.

Getting outed for nefarious activities is one reason why certain collectors and scam artists will think twice about doing bad things, as are other repercussions.

It's all about adapting to the current threats and trying to foresee the future ones. Those who are defeatist and say "what's the point?" are of no help here, same goes for the small minded babies (whose comments I fortunately don't have to read thanks to the lovely ignore feature!) who throw their insults because they have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion. Ironic that these are the same people who would benefit from AHs changing the ways they operate to make things safer and better for the hobby.

So my question still stands Has anyone on ebay ever been prosecuted for this type of activity? It is not a defeatist attitude to say "what's the point" if little is being done to those that are caught. It's simply a point to question the effectiveness of ebay's "transparency".

If transparency is a "deterrent", I would argue so is prosecution. And to a greater extent than simply being "banned" one day to come back another. Some AH have been prosecuted. Has anyone on ebay? Inquiring minds want to know.