Stolen Card on Ebay

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I can say, that recently a board member emailed me with some t205s he wanted to sell, he said he had no clue what they were worth. I guess i could of lied to him, but i didnt. Told him what they were worth and that I couldnt afford them.

I think finding a bag of cash, or getting extra money from a big bank isnt the same as if you saw a regular person drop $100.00 on the ground and give it back. Im not going to give money back to chase bank, but if a guy drops cash on the ground i would. I know chase has no issue with cash but a working guy who is busting his back to put food on the table for his kids and pay his mortgage, thats just different IMO

I see no difference here King, either way you are not entitled to keep it IMO.

[flavius]

It is of course completely unethical, and it's unfortunate that he is selling it off. However, I just don't think "stolen" is the right way to word it. It was misplaced, and SCL will be compensating you for it. You can probably have them win the ebay auction and ship it back to you.

There is a chance the seller doesn't even know it was supposed to go to someone else, but my main point is that this is much more SCL's fault than it is the person it was accidently shipped to.

Sorry if I turned some heads...

[frankh8147]

I think that after a few messages between you and the seller, this will be cut and dry. That 'Lewis' which is written and erased under Cobb's legs is pretty hard to dispute. Just go to the page where you originally bought this card, show that the the signature is exactly the same and its going to be hard to dispute...

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by flavius

There is a chance the seller doesn't even know it was supposed to go to someone else

Yes, this is extremely possible.

If you couldn't tell this is sarcasm.

[Exhibitman]

It might not be "stolen" but it is really, really sleazy to try and profit from an AH mistake like that. Golden Rule and all...

[Fred]

Originally Posted by flavius

"this is much more SCL's fault than it is the person it was accidently shipped to.

Sorry if I turned some heads...

Fault? I'm going to guess it was an honest mistake on the part of the shipper.

Perhaps your initial post was taken out of context but the part that indicated there was no obligation to return the card probably hit people the wrong way.

[flavius]

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

[Exhibitman]

Keep diggin' Flav. You're halfway to China about now on this one.

Mistake, screw-up, shipping error, whatever you want to call it does not change the nature of the behavior of the ebay seller. It isn't nice, it isn't ethical, and it certainly isn't laudable, admirable or praiseworthy.

I don't "expect" people to keep things sent to them by mistake, especially when they know who sent it and how to return it. I expect them to be honest, speak up, and not seek to screw someone else just because they can. From time to time I get something by mistake from an ebay seller or an auctioneer. I don't just take it and run. I contact the sender and arrange to return it. And I would hope that if I ever make a similar mistake the recipient will have the class and the courtesy to cut me a break. I may be naive but I am pleasantly surprised all the time in this Hobby by the honest and generous behaviors of fellow collectors and sellers and I hope it stays that way. When greedy, sleazy behavior is the expectation, it isn't fun anymore and I'm outta here.

[DerekMichael]

the ebay seller knows damn well that this is not their card ... the fact that they would then attempt to sell it is absolutely pathetic

Derek Hogue

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by DerekMichael

the ebay seller knows damn well that this is not their card ... the fact that they would then attempt to sell it is absolutely pathetic

Derek Hogue

You are assuming that the seller is the guy that got the card in the mail. I ask again, do we know that he didn't buy it from someone else that got it in the mail?

Does every seller know the provenance of every card they sell? The card could been sold by the scumbag TO Kevin

[hammer]

Make sure you are the high bidder in his auction and take it from there.

[iwantitiwinit]

I am almost certain that it is a federal offense to open a package sent thru the USPS if you are not the addressee even if you are a resident at the address specified. I do not know the rules if it is delivered via FedEx or UPS. Assuming that to be accurate I would think attempting to sell something not addressed to you would be an additional offense.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I am almost certain that it is a federal offense to open a package sent thru the USPS if you are not the addressee even if you are a resident at the address specified. I do not know the rules if it is delivered via FedEx or UPS. Assuming that to be accurate I would think attempting to sell something not addressed to you would be an additional offense.

My assumption was that it was addressed to him but included in the package by mistake.
The seller has been discussed on the board at length previously.

[packs]

Something like this would have had to have been signed for. If you signed for a package addressed to someone else and opened it and then sold the contents online you have committed a crime. Of course, the package could have been addressed to the seller since it was a shipping mistake.

[poorlydrawncat]

Originally Posted by flavius

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

Unfortunately Flavius is likely correct regarding the law. In most states, there is no legal obligation to return or pay for items sent to you that you did not order. This is to prevent companies from sending unsolicited items and then demanding payment for them. Of course, it also means that people who are sent items legitimately by mistake generally have no obligation to return or pay for them.

Of course, even if there's no legal liability there could be some civil liability. Who knows what would happen if this were sent to small-claims court...

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by flavius

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

What the %%%%

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by flavius

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

Wow.......what happened to your set of ethics?

[flavius]

If the card was shipped to me I would immediately return it free of charge, but if you are depending on the ethics of the general public to correct a mistake made by a company, then you won't be very happy with the outcome you get a large majority of the time. People are greedy, and if they choose to be a good samaritan and return the card then you thank them greatly, but just in life overall, there are a lot of rude people. 400+ dollars is a lot of money when it comes to motivating people to be mean....

Bryan

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by flavius

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

Um, if someone sent you something by mistake and you sold it you'd be converting someone else's property to your own. Similarly, if a bank mistakenly puts $1 million in your bank account and you withdraw it and keep it, you're committing a crime. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

[flavius]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Um, if someone sent you something by mistake and you sold it you'd be converting someone else's property to your own. Similarly, if a bank mistakenly puts $1 million in your bank account and you withdraw it and keep it, you're committing a crime. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

The difference there though is the card shipped to this person was obviously in his name and address, otherwise it wouldn't of ended up at his doorstep. I'm assuming he was a customer of the auction house and they somehow switched up who won what auction.

So this means the auction house intended for him to receive the card, and he is fully entitled to keep it. You can't ship something to someone then say it is stolen property when the act of shipping it is giving the item to them...

If a bank puts additional money in your account then that is because of a database error that was not consented to. This issue would be resolved pretty fast and if you withdrew the money before it was fixed, you would go into debt and owe the bank money.

The point here is that this is a mistake on the auction house's end and the receiver of the card is a jerk, but not a completely illegal criminal in the most basic definition. Who knows what could happen if he was taken to court though..

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by flavius

So this means the auction house intended for him to receive the card, and he is fully entitled to keep it. You can't ship something to someone then say it is stolen property when the act of shipping it is giving the item to them...
.

Going by that same logic, if my voter registration gets sent to the wrong address they can vote in my place for the next election.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by flavius

The difference there though is the card shipped to this person was obviously in his name and address, otherwise it wouldn't of ended up at his doorstep. I'm assuming he was a customer of the auction house and they somehow switched up who won what auction.

So this means the auction house intended for him to receive the card, and he is fully entitled to keep it. You can't ship something to someone then say it is stolen property when the act of shipping it is giving the item to them...

If a bank puts additional money in your account then that is because of a database error that was not consented to. This issue would be resolved pretty fast and if you withdrew the money before it was fixed, you would go into debt and owe the bank money.

The point here is that this is a mistake on the auction house's end and the receiver of the card is a jerk, but not a completely illegal criminal in the most basic definition. Who knows what could happen if he was taken to court though..

I think it applies in cases of mis-delivery. I'm not sure if the packing and shipping process also counts as delivery though. But I'd be inclined to think that with SCL being the auction house, that they never factor into the "ownership", only the "possession" of the item. And I think that would make them part of the delivery process involved in the card changing "ownership".

I'm no attorney though, just a lowly Ironworker...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by flavius

The difference there though is the card shipped to this person was obviously in his name and address, otherwise it wouldn't of ended up at his doorstep. I'm assuming he was a customer of the auction house and they somehow switched up who won what auction.

So this means the auction house intended for him to receive the card, and he is fully entitled to keep it. You can't ship something to someone then say it is stolen property when the act of shipping it is giving the item to them...

If a bank puts additional money in your account then that is because of a database error that was not consented to. This issue would be resolved pretty fast and if you withdrew the money before it was fixed, you would go into debt and owe the bank money.

The point here is that this is a mistake on the auction house's end and the receiver of the card is a jerk, but not a completely illegal criminal in the most basic definition. Who knows what could happen if he was taken to court though..

Clearly you're not a criminal lawyer nor did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Originally Posted by calvindog

Um, if someone sent you something by mistake and you sold it you'd be converting someone else's property to your own. Similarly, if a bank mistakenly puts $1 million in your bank account and you withdraw it and keep it, you're committing a crime. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

+1

[Bocabirdman]

I just noticed whit all of my posts, I still neglected to say how sorry I am for your troubles, Chris. I hope you get some justice.

Kevin selling the Cobb aside, wouldn't the Auction House be on the hook for the cash value, at least? I know that doesn't get Ty into your collection but it beats a poke in the eye.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Um, if someone sent you something by mistake and you sold it you'd be converting someone else's property to your own. Similarly, if a bank mistakenly puts $1 million in your bank account and you withdraw it and keep it, you're committing a crime. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

Don't confuse people who have opinions with facts.