1865 Brooklyn Atlantics CDV for sale

[packs]

I don't see how its questionable though. It's one of a kind with the prestige of the only other copy being in the Library of Congress. Plus the cdv got a ton of press before the auction went live too, just like that Peck and Snyder that surfaced a few years ago. Even if a guy didn't know much about sports memorabilia, he'd still purchase a Wagner if it came around and he had the money. In my opinion this piece is a lot more special than a Wagner.

[Jewish-collector]

The 92+ K wasn't "pocket change" to him. In one of the news articles, he said that if it was went for much more, he would not have been able to afford it.

[Runscott]

If you followed it 'live' via the Youtube thing they had set up, there were some long pauses where the bidders were apparently giving their next bid some serious consideration. Don could probably tell us how many bidders there were, but when this item hit something like $40K, 'fair warning' was issued several times.

My speculation is that if the eventual winner hadn't been bidding, it would have gone for an amount much closer to the predictions given by board members. But if there were three bidders at the end, then it's a different story.

The guys here who gave their estimates (yesterday and previously), include some serious collectors and historians who know their stuff - I would not just toss their opinions aside. As I've mentioned previously, but it got lost in the wash - we've seen rare pieces go for huge amounts before, despite board member opinions. We've seen the same pieces sell for much less later on, indicating that perhaps we knew what we were talking about, and the winning bidder was indeed overzealous (or whatever).

[oldjudge]

Dan/Packs--price, as you know, is a function of supply and demand. This is a rare piece, but there are countless one to five of a kind 19th century items. Virtually no one, including members of this board, knew the name of one player on this team before the CdV was found. The world record for a CdV price was a LOT less than this prior to this sale. I would contend that the demand for an item like this above a price of say $20,000 is negligible. This guy, who knows virtually nothing about 19th century material, paid more than any knowledgeable 19th century collector, with the means to easily purchase this item, was willing to pay. If you don't think this is a crazy transaction, or at least one that deserves more scrutiny, then I would suggest that you need to rethink the facts.

[packs]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Is there something subversive about his winning the card? What kind of scrutiny or questions do you think should be raised? If its a question of whether or not he paid too much, I don't think it can be answered since this is a one-of-a-kind piece and this sale is the baseline for its "value."

[aaroncc]

He may have paid too much. But don't forget there was also a under bidder.

[autograf]

The article said seven bidders. Would be interesting to know who bid above certain floors.......$40K....$50K.....etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if 1-2 of the bidders at or above those floors were in our midst...

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Dan/Packs--price, as you know, is a function of supply and demand. This is a rare piece, but there are countless one to five of a kind 19th century items. Virtually no one, including members of this board, knew the name of one player on this team before the CdV was found. The world record for a CdV price was a LOT less than this prior to this sale. I would contend that the demand for an item like this above a price of say $20,000 is negligible. This guy, who knows virtually nothing about 19th century material, paid more than any knowledgeable 19th century collector, with the means to easily purchase this item, was willing to pay. If you don't think this is a crazy transaction, or at least one that deserves more scrutiny, then I would suggest that you need to rethink the facts.

Jay, I know there are very few people with as much knowledge of the 19th century issues as you and a few other guys here, and I appreciate that, but when it comes to one of a kind items, an auction setting and a widely publicized item I don't think anyone can predict what that items sells for. Is it worth less than what he paid for it? Possibly...does the sale deserve more scrutiny? Not in my opinion...clearly there was a lot of hype here.

[Jlighter]

Mr. Olbermann weighs in on the issue.

http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/20...baseball-card/

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Mr. Olbermann weighs in on the issue.

http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/20...baseball-card/

Olberman argues that this item does not feature advertising, so it is not the same type of 'baseball card' cdv as the Peck & Snyder cards. By default, this makes it 'something else', which means it falls into the 'calling card' category of cdv (an ancient business card), and therefore, not a 'baseball card'.

Does Olberman really believe that members of the Brooklyn Atlantics were handing out this cdv at soirees as personal identifiers? It's more likely that if team photos were made for the players, they would have been created in a much larger format - this is borne out by team cabinet cards that were created in very limited quantities. Teams still have team photos ordered in sufficient quantities to satisfy the needs of their players;e.g-your ten year old child's soccer team. Nothing's really changed in that regard.

In my opinion team cdvs such as this one were probably used for advertising, even though there isn't a commercial business name on them. Perhaps they were offered to the public by Williamson (the photographer) to advertise his skills, or maybe they were used to advertise the team...by the team. If the team commissioned Williamson to produce a pile of these, and then handed them out to people, wouldn't that be advertisement, and thus qualify them for 'baseball card' status?

But there's only one of these (the loc version is a different animal). Assuming it's not an albumen photo removed from something else and affixed to an old mount (and that might be a big assumption), another possibility is that it's a prototype that Williamson created for a team representative, with the idea that if approved, such items could be produced in larger quantities, for advertising.

Another possible use: it wasn't uncommon for teams to have a pile of postcards created, and then use those to advertise their team, handing them out at games (Western Bloomers and other bloomer teams come to mind). Were these 'baseball cards'? I don't know that this ever occurred, but I can imagine a team selling cdv's of the team, at games. It was expensive to have photos made, and gate receipts weren't generally that big, so I doubt they gave them away, but I suppose it's possible.