Another shill? You tell me.

[smtjoy]

42 bids on 23 items. 100% of the activity, pretty much says it all.

I find it funny that some just gloss over stats like that or just dont care. I am guessing those are the collectors who only plan to part with their collection when they die so the price they pay makes no difference to them.

It does matter to me as someone who buys and sells various parts of my collection. I didnt really understand how much the whole shilling thing is a factor till I tried to sell some of my cards and well I got crushed. Then looking over my purchase log of who and when I purchased the cards and the ones I was losing the most money on all seemed to come from a couple of the big sellers. If it had happened on a few cards then fine its just a bad day selling but after selling over 500 cards and these trends were still going strong you realize just how much shilling is affecting prices. Also I really think shilling is used more to prop up the value of cards vs to increase value, so a comment like I though prices were normal or near VCP can also be very misleading. Like I said sell a couple cards and see how you do, it was an eye opening experience. Also when I sell cards I can hardly get any early bidding at all but somehow certain consignment houses initial bidding always seem to be run up to near 80% of VCP on every card. Again if it happened here and there fine but not nearly everything they sell.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

42 bids on 23 items. 100% of the activity, pretty much says it all.

I find it funny that some just gloss over stats like that or just dont care. I am guessing those are the collectors who only plan to part with their collection when they die so the price they pay makes no difference to them.

It does matter to me as someone who buys and sells various parts of my collection. I didnt really understand how much the whole shilling thing is a factor till I tried to sell some of my cards and well I got crushed. Then looking over my purchase log of who and when I purchased the cards and the ones I was losing the most money on all seemed to come from a couple of the big sellers. If it had happened on a few cards then fine its just a bad day selling but after selling over 500 cards and these trends were still going strong you realize just how much stilling is affecting prices. Also I really think shilling is used more to prop up the value of cards vs to increase value, so a comment like I though prices were normal or near VCP can also be very misleading. Like I said sell a couple cards and see how you do, it was an eye opening experience. Also when I sell cards I can hardly get any early bidding at all but somehow certain consignment houses initial bidding always seem to be run up to near 80% of VCP on every card. Again if it happened here and there fine but not nearly everything they sell.

Well said Scott. It is quite obvious what the bidder is up to shown in the first post of this thread. There is almost 0% chance a person with a feedback of 1, and all of those other bad signs, is just a coincidence. Sorry, I am not buying it. If that bidder were bidding on my stuff he would have a lot of explaining to do.

[sdkammeyer]

Yup, smells fishy to me as well.

Also, having too many auctions to keep track of who is who and what is going on is NOT a viable excuse. (Probstein posted something about that in another thread, and it's popped up again concerning this seller).

I had to call eBay the other day to have my limits raised ..... again .... 3rd time in 3 months. I understand this because I am new. But one is only "new" for so long. This time I asked what these limits were all about and when would they be lifted. I have had over 400 transactions in the last 3 months with 100% positive feedback, a GREAT DSR, and I just got the "power seller" icon (which means, amongst other things, that I have shipped over 90% of items within 24 hours of payment receipt). So I am thinking that I don't need limits. I have paid eBay over $2,000 in fees in the last 90 days, my poop is in a group, let's just lift the limits altogether.

They told me that EVERYONE has limits. No matter who you are. Their explanation was "so that we can be sure that you are not getting overwhelmed and you can keep everything under control as your eBay transactions rise". Ok, I get that ......

If I sell too much stuff this month and cannot keep things straight, forget to ship items, or start sending items to the wrong people (you get the idea) then maybe I really am selling too much on eBay and the limits are in place to help keep that from happening. The same should apply for shilling. If I'm selling so many items that I cannot see that my auctions are being shilled by one particular person then I have probably overstepped my boundries, I am selling too many things, and my limits need to be lowered.

IMO if it's not up to eBay to make sure all my packages get sent out in a timely manner to the right people, then it's not SOLELY their responsibility to make sure my auctions aren't being shilled.

I don't take consignments so obviously I am using myself as an example there .... but I hope my point came across.

[D. Bergin]

Has anybody contacted the seller to find out if the bidder is also a consignor of the items he is bidding on?

I don't think I recall ever saying it was a valid excuse to ignore a consignor shilling your auctions, because a particular seller is too big. I think I alluded that because the seller has such a large number of items up for auction at any given time, It's very possible a newbie never left that sellers page to bid elsewhere. Maybe because of budget, time, trust issues, familiarity or any number of other issues.

I do have a hard time believing nobody on here has picked one particular auction or seller to buy from in a one month period and not bid anywhere else. Must be a lot of deeeep pockets.

That's assuming this guy hasn't bought anywhere else. That is just one seller on Ebay he is following. Ebay is only one venue that happens to have lots of different sellers.

I've funneled lots of buyers to Ebay through my two retail websites, who were not previously Ebay bidders. It probably hurt me in the long run, but a lot of them started bidding on MY auctions first, because they were familiar with me, or my material.

I don't have a horse in the race, and I don't know if this seller is a serial shiller, he may very well be. If he is you should be making very loud noises about it and getting his attention.

I know I'm just small fry, but I would be very upset if somebody publicly accused ME of shilling. It's a serious accusation but the word seems to be thrown around at the slightest hint of a particular bidder not fitting into whatever a persons pre-conceived notions of what a bidders psychology should be.

[sdkammeyer]

My apologies ... if this comment was directed towards me

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't think I recall ever saying it was a valid excuse to ignore a consignor shilling your auctions, because a particular seller is too big.

I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

Yep, if he's somehow managed how to make a living with straight auctions, when almost no one else can (and ebay discourages that business model), then he knows what's going on.

[T205 GB]

I do believe the seller is a board member. I hope he chimes in

[sdkammeyer]

Thank you Dave ... I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone. My purpose was to point out that eBay puts these restrictions/limits on sellers to make sure they (sellers) can keep their sh*t straight..... and although I do not buy a whole lot from eBay I applaud them for that.

And .......

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I do believe the seller is a board member. I hope he chimes in

I hope they do!!

Shilling is one reason I (personally) will NEVER buy from anyone who takes consignments and sells on eBay.

If you are taking consignments, get yourself an auction house and quit exploiting eBay. That's my personal opinion, it is up for debate, but it is what it is. I tend to spend quite a bit (lately) on my collection but I refuse to buy from an eBay seller that is selling on consignment.

[bjk4343]

Hi All,

First post here. This caught my eye because I ran into the same thing with a the same seller on a recent auction. Card went for double what is was selling at in Dec.... Maybe the consignor bidding up his own stuff? I had a max at $110 which was my cap on it. To add, I don't think PWCC is involved. I see it as a issue with any big consignment houses. It would be nearly impossible to track all the bids they get, and who they get them from.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350705589112...4.m1426.l2649=


http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...Buyer_ViewLink

Bryan

[thehoodedcoder]

Hi

1) how would the seller know anything about the eBay user without them winning.

2) why wouldn't they just have a friend or neighbor schiller for them?

Kevin

[Runscott]

I know what type of response this is going to invite, but...

I'm still not seeing how this business model can work legitimately. Thinking about it as it applies to ebay, I'm also starting to wonder if I'm a bit naive when it comes to non-ebay auctions and consignor shill-bidding.

It's very obvious from reading some of the 'bidding stories' here, that bidders get caught up in the moment and bid more than they had planned (e.g-see underbidder post regarding the recent ebay Chicago Union Giants auction).

Certainly consignors are aware of the above, which is why shilling works. If consignor shilling is what makes the business model work, then the business is illegitimate.

[T205 GB]

That's how to get cheap cards. Open a new eBay acct and bid with a large seller on a lot of items and you guys will say shilling and stay away and I will get cards cheaper. Thanks for the advice guys

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

That's how to get cheap cards. Open a new eBay acct and bid with a large seller on a lot of items and you guys will say shilling and stay away and I will get cards cheaper. Thanks for the advice guys

+1. That is a funny idea.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

My apologies ... if this comment was directed towards me


I simply meant that since it has been mentioned in this thread that the seller has 2,000 auctions going right now, in my opinion, that's no excuse for said seller to say "oh i have too much going on to notice those things"

Again, my apologies if I came across the wrong way, or if you took it the wrong way. It seems that we agree on my points.

No Steve, absolutely no offense taken, and I don't think you were the only one to mention it. It wasn't directed at you in particular.

I do think, if the seller knows of a consignor who is shilling his auctions, he should be able to sniff that out, no matter how big they are. If it takes somebody else bringing up their suspicions with them, they should do their due diligence and follow up on that.

I do know from experience that every oddball bid or bidder doesn't always make a shill. Bidders are strange sometimes, and to pretend to predict how they all act, based on your own bidding history, is not quite in touch with the reality, much of the time.

There's things Ebay can do to make bidders more comfortable in their experience, that they refuse to put into practice. I'd like Ebay to limit the number of bid retractions one is able to place. Maybe one or two every couple months for legitimate mistakes. Serial bid retracting hurts both bidders AND legitimate sellers. If somebody has a lot of retractions they are either shilling auctions, or interfering with auctions of other sellers for their own amusement or curiosity. Unfortunately Ebay thinks every bidder is a good bidder and good for their bottom line, no matter how much chaos they create.