Auction Houses and blind bidding

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I understand the point you are making, but I think at least some of that phenomenon is because eBay is lot more dicey than dealing with an auction house. I am certainly not a big fish, but if I was buying a real premium card, I would feel much more secure buying from an auction house than off of eBay. The chance of receiving an empty box or a reprint that was depicted as a real card in the listing is pretty much zero with an auction house.

The auction houses are not perfect by any means, but they also weed out the blatant scammers and rip off artists that are so common on eBay. How much of what you cited is people paying for peace of mind and not having to deal with the riff raff of sellers on eBay?

I agree there are definitely scam and rip off artists on ebay, but at least you have buyer (and seller) protection if something goes wrong. With AHs you have no buyer protection at all. I've read stories of people receiving items NAD from AHs and then having to go through hell just to get a response.

Personally, I don't find any peace of mind bidding blindly and having no financial recourse if something goes wrong.


As for those who suggest just bid what you feel comfortable with, well, where do you get that comfort level from? Is it from research into what things have sold for recently in the past? If that research came from AH hammer prices then your own feeling of comfort might be coming from a shilled auction where you have no way of knowing what happened. Just because you feel something is right doesn't make it so.


Like I have said before, transparency is the only way to make it more difficult for people to cheat and scam. As long as humans exist there will always be those trying to take advantage through immoral means, but that doesn't mean you give up and say there is nothing you can do. It means you evolve, and if you don't, you get left in the dust. Adaptability is why humans have prevailed as the dominant species on this planet, and change is a good thing.

IMO, if you're afraid of people knowing what you're bidding on or buying, then you shouldn't be buying it. And I think the whole extended bidding system is nonsense. The system on ebay where it ends at an exact time and you drop in your bid at the last second to protect against any shill bidders works very well.

It's always better to have more information, that's how you get to the truth of situations by making informed decisions, it's how credibility is built and it's really the only way to get the closest to everyone winning.

[MikeU]

Originally Posted by bubblebathgirl

I agree there are definitely scam and rip off artists on ebay, but at least you have buyer (and seller) protection if something goes wrong. With AHs you have no buyer protection at all. I've read stories of people receiving items NAD from AHs and then having to go through hell just to get a response.

Personally, I don't find any peace of mind bidding blindly and having no financial recourse if something goes wrong.


As for those who suggest just bid what you feel comfortable with, well, where do you get that comfort level from? Is it from research into what things have sold for recently in the past? If that research came from AH hammer prices then your own feeling of comfort might be coming from a shilled auction where you have no way of knowing what happened. Just because you feel something is right doesn't make it so.


Like I have said before, transparency is the only way to make it more difficult for people to cheat and scam. As long as humans exist there will always be those trying to take advantage through immoral means, but that doesn't mean you give up and say there is nothing you can do. It means you evolve, and if you don't, you get left in the dust. Adaptability is why humans have prevailed as the dominant species on this planet, and change is a good thing.

IMO, if you're afraid of people knowing what you're bidding on or buying, then you shouldn't be buying it. And I think the whole extended bidding system is nonsense. The system on ebay where it ends at an exact time and you drop in your bid at the last second to protect against any shill bidders works very well.

It's always better to have more information, that's how you get to the truth of situations by making informed decisions, it's how credibility is built and it's really the only way to get the closest to everyone winning.

You want auction houses to be completely transparent when you don't even allow your 79T baseball set to be transparent on the PSA registry?

[Wymers Auction]

I am an auctioneer and I will never publish any bidder list. The thought of that is ridiculous. The bidders have a right to their privacy and I am not in business to share my contacts with anyone. My advice Paul is that if you do not trust auction houses than vote with your wallet and stay away from them. Paul have you ever been cheated by am AH? Do you understand how valuable a bidder list is to an auction company and how much money was spent to generate those bidders. As an auctioneer, there are certain people who will not trust me know matter how much I can prove that I am trustworthy that is part of the business.

[yankeeno7]

I agree with bidder privacy. Some people spend incredible amounts of money and some may not want others to know who they are or what they spend because they do not want to become targets. You might not see such high bids if people dont get privacy. Ask some of the big spenders if they would want people knowing how much they spend. I would bet most of them choose to enjoy their privacy. Transparency would never prevent shilling in any way. To think so is naive even if it seems like a good idea.

[Deertick]

I have had to use a 'proxy bidder' in a live auction because another bidder had his panties in a wad because I won an item he wanted. He was running up every item I bid on, all the while turning and glaring at me. My proxy won every bid without interference.

Can you imagine the shenanigans if (Lelands, Heritage, etc) showed who the bidders were?

Originally Posted by Deertick

I have had to use a 'proxy bidder' in a live auction because another bidder had his panties in a wad because I won an item he wanted. He was running up every item I bid on, all the while turning and glaring at me. My proxy won every bid without interference.

Can you imagine the shenanigans if (Lelands, Heritage, etc) showed who the bidders were?

Like I said before, the ebay system works best. With a fixed end time you can bid in the last few seconds and no one can run you up.

If people run up other people during the rest of bidding time they can be caught and handled. With AHs you have no chance and no clue what is happening to you at any point during the auction.

The problem with AHs is that they inflate prices causing a bubble that will eventually burst just like it did for the real estate market. I've seen it happen before, and have actually benefited from it by picking up premium cards on ebay when that exact same card (same cert) didn't go for close what it did with the offbay auction houses.

If you believe that for some reason AH bidding is all pure because it is blind, then you are the exact target that they and shillers are looking for. The more prices go up, the more the AHs make, so it is clearly to their advantage to do whatever it takes to keep those prices high ... and that's what they've created the arena that they have.