How many T206s to a row? (revisited I'm sure)

[wonkaticket]

Think Ted is talking about this.....could be wrong.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=66557

[teetwoohsix]

Nice thread Erick !!

You all bring up some great points.

Ted- are the 19 inch wide tracks adjustable on those presses? I'm just wondering about the printers having to be creative enough (not that they weren't) to have to print the T206 sheets and the tobacco packs all within the same 19 inch width.

I'm sure Steve would know the answer, but I can't help but think that they could adjust the width of the tracks. Maybe I'm wrong.

Great stuff guys !!

Sincerely, Clayton

[t206hound]

Two quick questions, and once answered I may have some more...

Originally Posted by atx840

There could have been a repeated row of 12341234123412341 for certain key players or 1231231231231234. There might have been columns with only one player, or maybe 3+.

What is the feasibility that there were multiple stones/plates for each player as Chris is suggesting? There would have to be multiples for each color pass, obviously. Honestly, I don't even know how they are made (acid?).

Originally Posted by tedzan

Erick
Although, we have not seen such a sheet of T206's, there exists an uncut cardboard sheet (19-inch by 33-inch) of PIEDMONT cigarette packs that lends credence to
the press track width of 19 inches.

The article that Wonka linked to stated that the sheet was 17x33... is this the one you are referring to Ted?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by t206hound

The article that Wonka linked to stated that the sheet was 17x33... is this the one you are referring to Ted?

Erick

That is the picture I was referring to....Thanks John for posting the link to it.

If you examine the top border of this PIEDMONT cigarette pack sheet, it has been hand cut. The cigarette packs along that edge of
this sheet are cut short approx. 2 inches.

I conclude that this sheet was 19 inches wide, based on an original cardboard print of a PIEDMONT advertising poster on display at
an Antique shop in Paradise, Pennsylvania (that I saw several years ago).

This poster's dimensions were exactly 19 inches x 22 inches (it was a factory cut piece). Unfortunately, it had been sold, otherwise
I would have bought it.

Furthermore, I have seen some original American Lithographic colorful lithographic advertising posters (non-sports) of varying sizes.
Invariably, a common aspect of these posters is a dimension that is 19 inches.


TED Z

[Craig M]

For example a max sheet size of 26 x 32 would have a max print size of 21 x 27.

Next:

27 x 39 - 22 x 34
29 x 43 - 24 x 38

and so forth

[White Borders]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Think Ted is talking about this.....could be wrong.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=66557

I can't make out the smaller lettering on these. Is there anything on them positively identifying that they were printed by American Lithographic Company?

Best Regards,
Craig

[Craig M]

First line reads:

Factory 240 1st Dist of Pxxx

I cannot read the xxx, is it PENN?

[Abravefan11]

Craig - Yes, it's PENN.

Here's the auction description when they sold in 2007:

Two pages of uncut Piedmont Cigarettes paper packs
This cardboard paper was found in a house that was built in 1901. I found it under 3 layers of antique linoleum, on an old heart pine varnished floor. It has some faint residue on the back. This paper comes from the PA Factory no. 240. I looked on the internet to see if I could find anything close to this and I couldn't. This would be a great addition to any antique Tobacciana collection.

I have two pages with 33 sets on each page. Both are uncut and in Excellent condition. One page does have a bend on it, but it doesn't take away from the paper. No tears at all. A little bit of staining, but just from natural paper staining. I am guessing that this cardboard paper is at least from the 1910 era. The measurements of the two pieces are 33 x17
If you have any questions I will try my best to answer them. Thank you for looking and happy bidding.

Edit: The auction description says they are "at least from the 1910 era", but as Jamie noted in his post they are Liggett & Myers boxes. This shows that they are 1912 or later, after the break up of the ATC.

[Craig M]

Does anyone have any pics of workers running the presses inside (ALC)?

If we can see what type of press was being used, we then can determine the make and model of the press and therefore knowing the exact max sheet size and max print area that particular machine was using.

So my question is:

Is it a press that was made in the USA or one that was made in England, Germany or France?

[Abravefan11]

Craig - Check out this post.

[Craig M]

NICE Tim!

In the pic of the press, do you see at the bottom - there are two rows - one is max sheet size and max print area?

33 x 17 is not there...

I will dig for black and white pics of ALC presses to see a make and model.

[steve B]

I haven't found a picture of ALC, and few showing Hoe presses other than the large web fed presses used for books and newspapers.

Here's another catalog or ad for Hoe,

http://www.librarycompany.org/pos/ex...images/2.8.jpg

The description says up to about 1000 sheets/hour.

And here's a nice pic of another big litho company from 1905 using a different companys preses, but very similar.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...d_Mfg._Co..png

Most lithographic shops have a variety of press sizes. The one I was at had a little one, maybe 10"? Two 35 inch and a 24 inch. They later added a 35 inch two color press.

Most presses can be adjusted to run smaller paper sizes, but it's not usual to do that. For any particular job there's an optimal press size, and that's what's used.

ALC was huge, and the floor layout shows just one floor. They probably had another 2-3 floors with different size presses.

A sheet 17x6 would be an odd arrangement. The image area would be just under 24.43 x 15.75. On the number 1 press it would be too large and on the number 2 size it would fit ok in 22x30, but with huge margins that would probably lead to too much waste. 17x8 would work, but with wide side margins, not bad but still not great. (24.43x21)
18x8 gives 25.86x 21. half inch margins top and bottom, and just over 2 inches on each side.(plus the built in margins of paper size vs image size shown in the ad)
Not bad......And with complex layouts using doubleprints and/or superprints it easily accomodates both the groups that fit well with 6 or 12 subjects as well as those with 17.

Hmmmm......that may make the most sense so far.

Although they could have easily gone to 20x8, the 18x8 layout could conceivably also have been done as 3 small sheets of 6x8, allowing a bit more flexibility with the back printing. That might also explain the cutting guidelines on the reverse where they don't make much sense.

Steve B

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Craig M

Does anyone have any pics of workers running the presses inside (ALC)?

If we can see what type of press was being used, we then can determine the make and model of the press and therefore knowing the exact max sheet size and max print area that particular machine was using.

So my question is:

Is it a press that was made in the USA or one that was made in England, Germany or France?

Hoe presses were made in the US. And in NYC.

Steve B