The downfall of the PSA boards.

[eomint]

This is my first post on these boards, I have been a member of the CU forums for many years and a collector of high end vintage. I have read the Net54 forums for a # of years, observing only...some of the posts are informative and in the true spirit of educating and sharing...others, such as this one bashing PSA, just serve to undermine the very hobby we all theoretically find so special.

I am a realist and not a sentimentalist, and good debate is valuable, I didnt even mind when people were questioning if I overpaid for the 55 Clemente 10, maybe I did and maybe I didnt, only time will tell. But most collectors, regardless of what they collect, wouldnt buy something if that something didnt have higher utility for them than the money/opportunity cost. And I think it's worth contemplating that and trying to be respectful of it.

PSA is the standard and clear market share leader in what they do. They are human and therefore mistakes can and will be made, but that does not mean that there is willful deceit or malice, I think David Hall, Joe, etc have always tried to do the right thing. Food companies have recalls, Tylenol had a big recall/scandal many years ago that has become an HBS case study in how to deal with crisis, and the bottom line is that while no entity is perfect, the way such entity handles tough issues or mistakes, admitting them, taking responsibility, offering to indemnify people, etc. is what determines longevity and whether any brand, including PSA, has enduring value.

I've really enjoyed the commradery of the CU boards and hope that Net54 will also continue to evolve into a forum for constructive dialogue about the hobby.

EOMINT

[Runscott]

[HRBAKER]

Net54 already is a constructive forum about the hobby. Not
everyone is cut out to be a cheerleader. Welcome to posting.

[mwilliams]

Just wow..."and hope that Net54 will also continue to evolve into a forum for constructive dialogue about the hobby"

[bobbyw8469]

others, such as this one bashing PSA, just serve to undermine the very hobby we all theoretically find so special.

I am the originator of the thread. The thread was never made to bash PSA. The thread was talking about the steady decline of theme and character of the PSA boards, to the point that the board now needs "chaperones" to get rid of the wild west mentality that has long prevailed on the boards, because some members refuse to act like adults. I'm sorry if you misconstrued it as a bashing of PSA. I don't bash PSA. I like PSA. Sure, they make mistakes like the rest of us. I don't have anything against them though. At least if I know I am sending them something, I am going to get it back (wink wink @ GAI).

[Runscott]

Bobby, your phone is ringing.

[novakjr]

Sorry to chime in so late on this one. But the PSA boards are fluff. Just another marketing tool for the company. If PSA is policing and poofing any thread or comment that sheds any sort of negative light on them, then the forum is not being allowed to be fully productive..

Ideally, it would be nice if our hobby was limited to sharing our pickups and digital pats on the back, or talking about pop numbers or registry rankings..But let's face it, this hobby is MUCH, MUCH more than that.. And the negative comes with the positive.

That's one of the best things about a board like this one. Absolute freedom. Well, as long as you post your name. We can tackle the good and the bad. And openly discuss and debate any matter, no matter how insignificant or controversial it may seem to some. You just don't get that when the hosting corporation is also the main topic of discussion.. The PSA boards have grown to the point of irrelevancy(would it be too far to say that they were irrelevant from their inception), because anything worth its weight that has been discussed over there, has or can or will be discussed over here openly and honestly, without the policing.

I am NOT trying to pick on PSA with this. Only the merit and character of the forum and the relation to it's hosts. It's just an observation about the nature of discussions about a company being held in a forum run by the same company.. The same would apply to just about any company.

[eomint]

I am highly confident that if Ken Kendrick wanted PSA to take back the card that they would if the Mastro allegations are proven to be true beyond a reasonable doubt. PSA stands behind its product. It is my understanding that Ken likes the story and mystique around "The Card" though and has no intention of unloading it. He has a wonderful collection and the Wagner, while a trophy card, is an insignificant % of his net worth.

There is a reason that Merkel, Branca, Spence, Ireland, and other great collectors are either pure PSA guys or predominantly so. And Fogel is exclusively a PSA guy, never have seen any of his cards in other holders.

In any event, it is not my job to defend PSA, but I do believe that over time rare, vintage, and iconic PSA graded cards, especially at the top of the condition scale, will continue to be in high demand.

BTW, if anybody can locate any of the following cards for me in PSA 9 it would be much appreciated, not an easy wantlist:

1948 Leaf Musial
1948 Leaf J Robinson
1951 Bowman Ford
1951 Bowman Mays
1951 Bowman Mantle
1952 Topps Matthews
1954 Bowman Williams
1955 Topps Snider

EOMINT

[Leon]

EOMINT- As you well know all of your opinions are fine and dandy. You are very close to needing to put your full name out here though. Reason being, how do we know you don't work for PSA? I like PSA and have nothing against them at all. It could be any company or person, same rules for everyone.
Personally, I think SGC and BVG grade vintage better but that is just my biased and experienced opinion. Everyone has one. Just be careful in what you say if you don't want to put your name out here. Also, some anonymous POS tattled on you right before your last post... I can't stand anonymity so would almost do the opposite of what someone tells me to do, if they are anonymous. But with your last post I felt the need to let you know. No worries, just be careful and welcome to the forum.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by eomint

There is a reason that Merkel, Branca, Spence, Ireland, and other great collectors are either pure PSA guys or predominantly so. And Fogel is exclusively a PSA guy, never have seen any of his cards in other holders.

Bobby is also a PSA collector, or was.

There is no such thing as a 'great' collector. We all end up in the same place, just some get mahogany and some get pine.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I am the originator of the thread. The thread was never made to bash PSA. The thread was talking about the steady decline of theme and character of the PSA boards, to the point that the board now needs "chaperones" to get rid of the wild west mentality that has long prevailed on the boards, because some members refuse to act like adults. I'm sorry if you misconstrued it as a bashing of PSA. I don't bash PSA. I like PSA. Sure, they make mistakes like the rest of us. I don't have anything against them though. At least if I know I am sending them something, I am going to get it back (wink wink @ GAI).

Why did you bring this up on these boards and NOT post it on the PSA boards? It seems to me you would find a whole lot of people over there that would actually care about this subject. I swear sometimes you just cannot see the forest for the trees!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I like PSA. Sure, they make mistakes like the rest of us. I don't have anything against them though. At least if I know I am sending them something, I am going to get it back (wink wink @ GAI).

Tell that to Dan McKee.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by eomint

...
PSA is the standard and clear market share leader in what they do. They are human and therefore mistakes can and will be made, but that does not mean that there is willful deceit or malice, I think David Hall, Joe, etc have always tried to do the right thing.
...

EOMINT

For Eomint:

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Runscott

For Eomint:

Yeah, I know this a bit wacky, but you have to admit it is a beautiful card!!! And I think most buyers of the McNall/Gretsky Wagner knew about its origins before they bought--word had been pretty rampant throughout the hobby for years and years!

Larry