Bidding on your own auction

[jp1216]

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

Jon- the sellers see all bidders full details concerning their USER ID. They know who is bidding or can certainly find out very easily, I would think.

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think it's Probstein doing anything himself (or their self). I do think he could be more diligent on watching for this shady bidding that seems to be going on and helping to avoid it. He might get so many consignments that he can't keep up with the shilling of his consignors?

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

Exactly. The seller would know about the continuous retractions. My thinking is that an honest seller wouldn't want a shill screwing with their auctions. More importantly, an honest seller would quickly and vigorously respond to allegations of underhanded activities. If I were accused of these things, I would be outraged and would certainly respond.

[mcgwirecom]

Now I don't feel so bad about taking his free carry-all at the National this year.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

Now I don't feel so bad about taking his free carry-all at the National this year.

It's not free -- you paid for it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Jon- the sellers see all bidders full details concerning their USER ID. They know who is bidding or can certainly find out very easily, I would think.

Yep, so if there IS shilling going on, the sellers are complicit in the arrangement. Or they are great businessmen who just don't pay attention to who their customers or consignors are

As an aside, it's hard to imagine a successful business model that relies purely on straight ebay auctions. I don't want to get sued for libel, so please don't give me examples.

[RCMcKenzie]

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

As a seller on ebay, I've hit record low prices selling cards that start at 99 cents w/ no reserve. (33 Goudey 92 Gehrig SGC 40/3 for $550, T206 Mathewson PSA 4 for $450, 33 Sport Kings Cobb PSA 3 for $300, and more where those came from.) I personally think it's nuts for the average seller to start auctions at 99 cents these days, so I never do that anymore unless I just want to get rid of the card and am willing to take whatever loss comes my way. However, I also think shilling is wrong, and it's obviously going on in the case listed in this thread. Rick Probstein runs a lot of auctions. There's no way he could keep track of it if some of his consignors wanted to shill their own items. However, once someone points out to him that it's happening, he should come down hard to them by ending the listings, outing the consignor, and banning those folks from consigning w/ him again.

BTW, if you want ebay to get rid of BINs and go back to regular auctions, mail ebay and tell them to implement the following 3 things: (1) raise BIN fees to 5% of the BIN price, with the max length of BINs still at one month, (2) remove all promotions relating to free insertion fees for listings, (3) remove insertion fees for any auction listing that starts at 99 cents or less. There would be a huge outcry among sellers, including myself, but I think if ebay did this, you'd see a lot more regular auctions again and less BINs.

[JollyElm]

If it walks like a shill and quacks like a shill, it's a shill. Freakin' ridiculous!!!

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Exactly. The seller would know about the continuous retractions. My thinking is that an honest seller wouldn't want a shill screwing with their auctions. More importantly, an honest seller would quickly and vigorously respond to allegations of underhanded activities. If I were accused of these things, I would be outraged and would certainly respond.

key word "HONEST"

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

[Leon]

Originally Posted by T206DK

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

That's kind of a new twist, condemning a whole state for one person's thoughts. For the record I am in no way condoning shilling or the ignoring of shilling. Its fraud and it's ethically wrong too. It certainly looks like the seller needs to be asking questions and possibly booting some consignors.

and a nice video on shilling....R rated for language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqJew...layer_embedded


.

[ullmandds]

nice video...pretty f'in funny...the accent definitely increases it's comedic value!!!!

[Runscott]

I think it's great that people on drugs can make videos. Very funny.

[familytoad]

Geez, I actually laughed out loud during that video! A true LOL is much rarer than the typed out trio of letters...

Cookies are good.
Shilling sux.

I only bid on 3-4 different sellers on ebay. That's because I have had sucessful transactions with them, and i created a saved search for those dealers. I typically only look through their offerings, not the whole ebay enterprise. I am not a seller. Sure that limits what I see and probably keeps my glasses colored in rose.

This leads me to several disjointed conclusions:

EBAY ain't what it used to be. You may not find as many "steals" as in the older days.

Sellers hate steals almost as much as buyers like them.

Every time I bid higher than a shiller , or any other under bidder, I win.

Shilling sux.

We should embrace ebay turning into strictly marketplace-based. Eventually, high BIN prices for *every* listing will slow the ebay income machine enough where they will be forced to make some adjustments. Ebay never appears to be afraid to change. Hit 'em in the wallet, you'll see quick change.

In the meantime, we card collectors have plenty of other outlets to buy cards.
Even sellers have a big network of selling outlets.
Who needs eBay?

I spelled e-bay 5 different ways.
Ebay still sux.

Happy New Year!!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by T206DK

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

Come by the bicycle shop I work for. I'll take T206s and T207s as payment. Probably a bunch of other cards as well.

Steve B

[probstein123]

Bidding on your own auction
I don't understand this, unless to drive up the bid prices..? Look at this Probstein123 listing which ends tonight...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=380538844655

y***y (private) bid $189 on 12/18 - - only issue is y***y (private) won this very card on 12/2/12 for $355! (see below link)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251189941256

So he winds winning the card, consigns with Rick - and bids on his own card to drive more bids/up the price..?

==> hey ed, how are you ? I went back and looked at that auction...the winning bidder is not one of active 300 consignors...

[TNP777]

If you're referring to the winning bidder of the recently-ended auction, then you're not answering the question, Rick. The concern is that the person who won the first auction then consigned the card with you and subsequently ended up as one of the underbidders, more popularly known as a shill bidder.

See, this is your pattern. When there is a thread praising you, you're Johnny-on-the-spot. When there is a thread (and there have been many) that call into question sketchy bidding activity on your auctions, or your blatant spamming of the SC&MF on CU, or anything else negative, well then it's crickets. When you do bother to respond, you give some nebulous answer that's not an answer at all. Usually you give an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Heck, why respond when there's a darn good chance then thread will be locked, or posts selectively deleted, or best yet the whole thread disappears? Duck the tough but fair questions and wait for the Moderator-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to simply delete the offending question and ban the asker.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by TNP777

If you're referring to the winning bidder of the recently-ended auction, then you're not answering the question, Rick. The concern is that the person who won the first auction then consigned the card with you and subsequently ended up as one of the underbidders, more popularly known as a shill bidder.

See, this is your pattern. When there is a thread praising you, you're Johnny-on-the-spot. When there is a thread (and there have been many) that call into question sketchy bidding activity on your auctions, or your blatant spamming of the SC&MF on CU, or anything else negative, well then it's crickets. When you do bother to respond, you give some nebulous answer that's not an answer at all. Usually you give an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Heck, why respond when there's a darn good chance then thread will be locked, or posts selectively deleted, or best yet the whole thread disappears? Duck the tough but fair questions and wait for the Moderator-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to simply delete the offending question and ban the asker.

I guess I have figured out how he gets 20%-35% over VCP for alot of auctions.....just consign and bid your stuff up. There are to many smoking guns that have been uncovered on the boards to convince me otherwise.

Geordie you are right though, whenever we uncover shilling on Rick's auctions, you never hear from him or he doesn't answer your question. That speaks volumes to me.

Also to add, this seems like the next generation of selling. Send your stuff to consigment houses (whether ebay or auction houses) and bid your stuff up.

This is why I much rather prefer to buy off the boards or in person vs ebay if I can help it.

Mark

[Edwolf1963]

Hello all,

My question/issue in starting this thread was simply noting that the person who had recently won that card - y***y (private) or eBay ID "myboydannyroy67", appeared to have consigned that same card with Rick shortly thereafter and was then bidding on it - presumably to drive up bids.

I reported it to eBay and sent Rick a message at the time with the assumption he was unaware.

Obviously, whether or not myboydannyroy67 won the card was not the issue.

[probstein123]

whats the item # ? I'd like to go back and look at the bidders on that auction
thanks
rick

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

I guess I would also like to know the reasoning behind this as well. If the same bidder had retracted 43 bids on my auctions, I wouldn't want them bidding on my listings. With such a high number of retractions by the same person, it certainly looks like the artificial manipulation of prices.

[Edwolf1963]

links and information are in the beginning of this thread.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

i will honestly say, i have bought a ton of cards from this guy. i have always felt i was over paying for the cards. all high grade t206s 5 and higher.

after reading this i just don't know how i can buy anything from this seller again. i actually would not want to bid on anything this seller may be consigning to someone else.

there were some higher dollar cards that went off at REA which are coming into question. im aware that they were owned by the seller prior to making their way into that auction.

is there any good way to determine that?

kevin

[atx840]

Please also look into this bidder, since my original post his % has dropped but he is still bidding on a good majority of your cards.

He has bids in 26/27 of your current auction T206 listings. Same with n***n(270)


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

[cincyredlegs]

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

[TNP777]

Less than 10% of Rick's auctions are true auctions - the rest of his listings ate fixed price. Monitoring even those "few" auctions is probably more daunting than we think, but it would still be nice to see immediate emphatic action taken when shilling is exposed. Maybe Rick does take that action immediately, maybe not. It does seem that controversy swirls for quite some time before an appearance is made letting the board know it's been handled.

I've said it before across the street - Rick can run his business any way he darn well pleases. He's obviously doing something right, or a whole lot of somethings. Were it my business, though, I'd be all over it the instant improprieties became known, and I'd be vigorously informing my current and potential client base that I was doing everything possible to safeguard the integrity of my auctions.

[Sean1125]

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

In my opinion his posts on this thread are meant to show fake concern. Just say NO to shill bidding and these guys will have to go back to their real jobs

[trobba]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

1. A seller knows when there is a bid retraction. 40+ from the same bidder in a short period of time would send off red flags, no matter how big your operation is.

2. Is a consignor winning their own lots? Is the seller having to relist items because the consignor won the lot the first it was offered? That would not go by undetected either.

Either situation is artificial manipulation by one or more parties and the seller is an accomplice at best. I would just like to have these concerns addressed so that we can be reassured that this is not the case with Probstein auctions.

Thanks.

Chris

[cubsfan-budman]

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

Actually I think morality, good of the hobby, accurate valuations and concern for future buyers are all very important. Karma is a mo-fo too ......

I realize and agree with the general sentiment though....

[cubsfan-budman]

I'm guessing there are some guys on this board that Probstein would love to have as customers that are becoming convinced that he's not the right guy to do business with.

[probstein123]

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

[atx840]

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by trobba

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

SEE this is the problem here. Everyone is too willing to cut this guy a break EVERYTIME someone notices something fishy about his auctions. Just stop biding on them and he will dry up and blow away , or go back to working a real job. The more excuse you collectors make for dishonest dealers , the more they think they can get awau with. They know a certain segment of collectors will bid on their stuff whether there is shill biding going on or not. If you guys bid on Probsteins stuff ...more power to ya ! he and others like him will linger and sour this hobby for any newcomers.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by atx840

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

[Bpm0014]

9,999 a month....

I personally will never bid on anything he sells again. Mainly because he seems unapologetic and has not once addressed the big picture.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

9,999 a month....

I personally will never bid on anything he sells again. Mainly because he seems unapologetic and has not once addressed the big picture.

I does make one think twice before bidding on his auctions. I have purchased from him in the past but I cant help but wonder if I was shilled in some way. Sadly, this makes many bidders questions the practices that are in place in his auctions, regardless if Rick is involved with the bidding issues or not. I do find it hard to believe that he is shilling these auctions himself but I think it is too easy for the consigners to push the auctions prices with no checks put in place to prevent this practice.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

An unethical auctioneer has none. No surprise that ebay has changed their software over the years to make fraud discovery more difficult, as such fraud increases their profits as well.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by probstein123

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

how am the only person who is understanding this concept?:

everything is ok? we looked, we are not in on it, neither is anyone else. trust me when i tell you nothing is wrong.

are you serious? let me continue this: his name was bob jumbolaya. he sounded like he was 29 years old-ish when we spoke on the phone and he typed with a overseas z to s replacement even though he was from the greater mississippi area. do you believe me now that i have told you all of this? of course not. you could be a compulsive liar for all we know.

when someone questions your level of trust with evidence you need to refute with evidence.

you are fighting a trust and evidence issue with only a rquest to trust? that is a falacy. i feel bad enough for anyone who believes what you just said without evidence that you are in fact 1) telliing the truth and 2) you did the diligence people are assuming you did.

add real proof. take a screen shot. trust someone on here to examine the evidence and testify you are giving accurate statements.

kevin

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by TNP777

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

Sorry for not being clear, I meant to give suggestions rather than a solution. I believe it is up to Rick to come up with a solution because ultimately he is responsible, but if anyone has any insight that they think would be helpful it would be nice to have it.

Edit: As a comparison to the steroids ordeal I would use "fan feedback" - everyone will have their opinions and I believe most would be willing to give it. I am not saying he will even use them but there might be an "ah-ha" moment on one of them.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

here is another auction that is sure to go for high dollar amount. i started scanning some of the bidders.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370744120138...84.m1423.l2649

check it out and let me know what you think.

kevin

[MikeU]

Always trying to beat down the successful. If you would all follow the attached, you could be successful yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYX65R4sXI

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by MikeU

Always trying to beat down the successful. If you would all follow the attached, you could be successful yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYX65R4sXI

Sounds like you have an invested interest. Why else would you condone this type of activity?

[smtjoy]

lol Nice 1 feedback bidder with 51% with this seller and putting out 97 bids the last 30 days, year right.......