Brooklyn CDV

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

Scott,

What scares me about your ideas regarding this is that if I follow your logic than I cannot trust or believe For Certain that any of the photos YOU own are real. Unfortunately at this time it is a fact that all of the photos you own could be fake. That is a fact and will remain a fact until you have this fiber analysis/testing done on everyone of them.


At this point, if you have any or put any photos up for sale I cannot buy from you. It's nothing personal - I just cannot trust you.... I need forensic proof

Scott, please hit me up if you ever do decide to sell something that is not fake... Of course include the proper documentation that I mentioned above - otherwise happy hunting!


Shawn

No one is required to do anymore testing. Scott isn't and the auction house isn't for the items they sell. There may be a negative impact in the final sale price however if the burden of proof is not met. You won't buy from Scott but others will. Same thing with this piece. It doesn't eliminate the sale, it just might exclude some buyers.

If the auction house's job is to get maximum dollars for the piece, they should endeavor to broaden the audience and not exclude anyone. Their choice, of course, as to how far they are willing to go.

[oldjudge]

Corey makes an excellent suggestion. If the consignor/auction house is not worried about what Paul might find I don't know why they would not agree to this.

[yanks12025]

Once it sells, it's out their hands. So if it's fake, tough luck. I still don't get why the guy who found it and listed it on ebay, received all these high offers while it was on ebay and then sells it to a friend for im guessing alot less then what he was offered on ebay.

In general i don't under the "as-is" in auctions. If you're selling something, say a Babe Ruth signed ball. And it turns out not to be a Babe Ruth ball, then it was false advertising.

[E93]

With all due respect, I think this topic has run its course. I believe SRA have done their due diligence. If the winner choses to have further tests done that determine it to not be period, they can sue to get their money back if it comes to that. I doubt it would. Let's move it.
JimB

[Leon]

Originally Posted by E93

With all due respect, I think this topic has run its course. I believe SRA have done their due diligence. If the winner choses to have further tests done that determine it to not be period, they can sue to get their money back if it comes to that. I doubt it would. Let's move it.
JimB

And with all due respect Jim, maybe some folks don't think it's time to move on. As long as the discourse remains civil I see no harm in continuing the discussion. Saco has done a lot and if I were them I would have done even more. Just one bidder with deep pockets could easily mean 5 figures more in the realized price. I think there are a few deep pocketed collectors in this thread too. One other thing, I would suggest Troy brush up on what is customary in our hobby. Several things stated, concerning norms, are obviously not correct. It's not extraordinary to get more than a few expert opinions on a valuable item. People can't just glue an SGC slab back together and think it's fine. Testing a fiber will not generally ruin an item. Because you make an exception on an item (if you do) doesn't mean you MUST do it on any other item. Personally, I don't think extreme measures have been taken but some measures certainly have been.

[smokelessjoe]

This one has a 50/50 chance of being fake... Or has a binder analysis already been done?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

This one has a 50/50 chance of being fake... Or has a binder analysis already been done?

I got it off of the counter at the Peck and Snyder store. Next question.

[Saco River Auction]

Originally Posted by Leon

And with all due respect Jim, maybe some folks don't think it's time to move on. As long as the discourse remains civil I see no harm in continuing the discussion. Saco has done a lot and if I were them I would have done even more. Just one bidder with deep pockets could easily mean 5 figures more in the realized price. I think there are a few deep pocketed collectors in this thread too. One other thing, I would suggest Troy brush up on what is customary in our hobby. Several things stated, concerning norms, are obviously not correct. It's not extraordinary to get more than a few expert opinions on a valuable item. People can't just glue an SGC slab back together and think it's fine. Testing a fiber will not generally ruin an item. Because you make an exception on an item (if you do) doesn't mean you MUST do it on any other item. Personally, I don't think extreme measures have been taken but some measures certainly have been.

Leon as I stated in a previous post we have an appointment to have the card re-slabbed. I have no need to "brush up" on your practices and customs. I am not a collector, I am simply direct communication between you all, and the auction hall ownership. I have done my job to the best of my abilities and have done what has been asked of me. We have been honest in all our disclosures on this card and in fact have disclosed alot more info than most auction halls would. We have also done more than any auction hall I know, and I know and work with many of them, including one of the best in the world located right here in Maine. Many of the readers on this post agree that auction halls never go through as many hoops as we have jumped through on this card. The halls you deal with might be different, but the norm is not to jump through a new hoop every time someone posts an alternate theory as to why this item is fake. We could have easily sold this card strictly with the SGC holder and it would have done fine. In Hindsight I wish we had done that, because the theories as to why this is"fake" has been rampant ever since. We went to disprove the Lelands assessment by going to Messier, but that wasn't good enough, because then the theories shifted from Lelands findings, to binder, to this being a stolen item etc. I could go through ten more tests(if they existed) and everyone would be demanding that five more be completed. Enough is enough! We are going to sell the item on Feb 6, it will go to a deserving collection for excellent money and we will move on to something else. If someone is not comfortable with this card, don't bid. I can guarantee that others will bid, and someone will have an absolute gem in their collection and all this talk will be for not. An auctioneer contacted me a short time ago to tell me that if this item was in a big sports auction house, that there would have never been any discussions on this and the card would bring huge money. I wonder if the issue is really with the card, or who is selling it?

Troy

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Saco River Auction

...An auctioneer contacted me a short time ago to tell me that if this item was in a big sports auction house, that there would have never been any discussions on this and the card would bring huge money. I wonder if the issue is really with the card, or who is selling it?

Troy

Troy, this discussion was started because the item was rejected by a "big sports auction house".

fyi, pretty much everybody in the hobby, big money or small, has been burned at some point. You have entered a very skeptical market. The fact that the consignor was willing do anything, except a binder test is a red flag period. To say that "big sports auctions" don't get the same treatment is ridiculous. Just check the recent thread about Mile High, and how the item was instantly removed.

You're right though, someone will pay big money for this item and possibly do no more testing. Maybe someone that doesn't know any better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by E93

With all due respect, I think this topic has run its course. I believe SRA have done their due diligence. If the winner choses to have further tests done that determine it to not be period, they can sue to get their money back if it comes to that. I doubt it would. Let's move it.
JimB

And what makes you think they would win? Saco River has made very clear what has been done to authenticate the piece, as well as what hasn't been done but could be. There has been comprehensive disclosure, and therefore a bidder knows exactly what the risks are and cannot possibly claim to have been deceived.

[MGHPro]

Troy has gone above and beyond what most auction houses would do. He got it authenticated by a well respected grading company, offers plenty of time to preview and will even allow you to bring a professional with you to evaluate it. I give Troy a major thumbs up for all of his work and handling himself in a professional manner.

if Lelands never passed on the item and it surfaced in an SGC case, would we really be having this conversation? 99% of auction houses sell as-is where is.. It is stated in black and white. If you really have concerns about the item, don't bid.. that's all. I wouldn't buy an item for 10k or 20k or 100k unless I was pretty confident in it.

I think Troy should be cut some slack and let's see what it does in auction.
Matt

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by MGHPro

Troy has gone above and beyond what most auction houses would do. He got it authenticated by a well respected grading company, offers plenty of time to preview and will even allow you to bring a professional with you to evaluate it. I give Troy a major thumbs up for all of his work and handling himself in a professional manner.

if Lelands never passed on the item and it surfaced in an SGC case, would we really be having this conversation? 99% of auction houses sell as-is where is.. It is stated in black and white. If you really have concerns about the item, don't bid.. that's all. I wouldn't buy an item for 10k or 20k or 100k unless I was pretty confident in it.

I think Troy should be cut some slack and let's see what it does in auction.
Matt

One big +1