Brooklyn CDV

[Saco River Auction]

That's great advice and I thank you, however there are people on here that do not allow for a common sense approach and feel that every move we make is a way of decieving potential buyers of this card. To leave it out of the holder or in its current re-glued state is going to force a select number of people to continue to speculate that we are doing something ridiculous like a bait and switch or forgery. I would feel better if I could put that particular fire out long before the auction occurs.

Troy

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Saco River Auction

That's great advice and I thank you, however there are people on here that do not allow for a common sense approach and feel that every move we make is a way of decieving potential buyers of this card. To leave it out of the holder or in its current re-glued state is going to force a select number of people to continue to speculate that we are doing something ridiculous like a bait and switch or forgery. I would feel better if I could put that particular fire out long before the auction occurs.

Troy

Troy, this is a ridiculous assertion. One thing we ALL have stated is that we are CERTAIN that you are NOT trying to deceive anyone.

There is absolutely no doubt here that you are honest. I can also assure you that no one thinks that your re-gluing the SGC holder would be akin to a 'bait and switch' - it would simply be indicative of ignorance regarding our hobby and slabbing.

Edited to add: Regarding the Bean Eaters cabinet, I felt that it was simply a case of your putting up something for auction that you did not know was a forgery. Yes, your practices are questioned, but not your honesty. There is a huge difference.

[Saco River Auction]

Scott your are completely delusional and I have no way (or need) to respond to you further. You love to stir up hornets nests and love the controversy. I am not going to get into a battle with you because your have no relevance in this matter. You are not going to be a bidder on this and would love to see this whole thing turn into a bad deal for the auction house and the consignor. In one breath you call me both honest and dishonest. Which is it scott? I have spoken with you numerous times on the phone and you seem like a decent guy, however I am not sure which one of your personalities I was speaking to at the time. This is counter productive as most of the negative comments have been in this forum.

To all prospective bidders who have an interest in this card, talk to me personally. I have supplied my personal cell phone number for you all and I encourage you to take advantage of it. I do not want unsure bidders. I want bidders who know that this is amazing opportunity to buy a piece of history. I feel that through dealing directly with me and ignoring these ridiculous comments, I can get your questions answered and your confidence level where it needs to be to purchase an item such as this.

Troy

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Saco River Auction

Scott your are completely delusional and I have no way (or need) to respond to you further. You love to stir up hornets nests and love the controversy. I am not going to get into a battle with you because your have no relevance in this matter. You are not going to be a bidder on this and would love to see this whole thing turn into a bad deal for the auction house and the consignor. In one breath you call me both honest and dishonest. Which is it scott? I have spoken with you numerous times on the phone and you seem like a decent guy, however I am not sure which one of your personalities I was speaking to at the time. This is counter productive as most of the negative comments have been in this forum.

Troy

"...and would love to see this whole thing turn into a bad deal for the auction house and the consignor." Where do you come up with this stuff?

You need to hope that your present consignors (and prospective future ones) aren't reading your comments here. The best thing that could happen for you is that you sprain your index finger.

[oldjudge]

Troy--if someone purchases the CdV and goes through the additional testing and the result is that it is not period, does that person have the right to get a full refund?

Thanks---Jay

[Bugsy]

I appreciate an auction house willing to come on here and thoroughly discuss an item they will be listing. I wish more would be willing to do so, although the way this thread has gone recently, I can't blame them for not wanting to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't read Scott's posts as accusing anyone of dishonesty. I read him as simply making the point that the expert identified additional tests that could be done to provide a more definitive opinion on authenticity, that those tests have not been done and will not be done before the auction, and that therefore some question by definition remains.

[bmarlowe1]

I agree with Peter. After spending a considerable amount of time responding to what Scott did not say, hopefully Troy will spend just a bit of time responding to what Jay (oldjudge) did say.

[benjulmag]

There is nothing inappropriate about prospective bidders in a respectful manner asking an auction house penetrating questions about an item for which it is soliciting six-figure bids, especially when legitimate red flags have been raised and especially in a hobby riddled with high price forgeries. Saco River Auctions to its credit took the item to Paul Messier for examination. Clearly what the hobby was waiting to hear from Mr. Messier was his opinion whether the item was real, not some meaningless statement that the item is consistent with 19th century albumen photos. I can tomorrow create a CdV of the 1865 Atlantics, present it to Mr. Messier, and get an identical statement from him. Mr. Messier all but invites that additional testing be done. The consigner declines, not wanting to risk damage to the CdV. Fine, that is his decision to make, though if he is that certain the item is real, given the thinness of the market at that price level and the significant impact the addition of just one well-heeled bidder can make to the realized price, I'm not certain he is making the correct decision. I can also understand the auction house's reluctance to allow prospective bidders to inundate Mr. Messier with calls, though I still don't see why a one-time call-in period moderated by Troy, when he can filter calls from people he does not feel are legitimate bidders, is not a workable idea. So then I respectfully ask the following of Saco River Auctions. Could you please ask Mr. Messier to answer the following question, and relay his answer to the Board: "In your opinion was the Atlantics CdV printed in the 19th century?" When answering he is to choose one of the following answers: A. EXTREMELY LIKELY, B. LIKELY, C. POSSIBLY, D. UNLIKELY, E. EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.

I have little doubt Mr. Messier, having had the item in hand, has an opinion as to whether it is real and I believe prospective bidders have a right to know what that opinion is. On a personal level I would love it if he opined it is real, but I need to hear that from him.

[Saco River Auction]

Hello guys I was a little delayed on this because I was away from the pc for a while. First to jay. I will be calling you with follow up info regarding the official policy on this card. For all of you i am going to post sra's policy on this sale as well as any guarantees that my experts are willing to make. We will be crafting a joint policy on this matter which will clearly define the terms of the sale prior to the bidding beginning on this item.
To Corey. I will be contacting mr. Messier on Monday and I will pose that question to him and get you all an appropriate answer. I will also try to formulate a plan for bidders who are signed up for this sale to be authorized to speak with him if he is willing and has the time.
Troy

[cyseymour]

nm

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Troy--if someone purchases the CdV and goes through the additional testing and the result is that it is not period, does that person have the right to get a full refund?

Thanks---Jay

The question I would ask is if the auction house would, at the instruction of the winning bidder, send the CdV to Mr. Messier for the additional testing before payment is tendered? I think it would be a smart business decision to make, as it might induce people to bid who otherwise would be reluctant due to concerns about the authenticity of the item and the risk that the refund might not be readily forthcoming.