OT: Who's your vote

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

I have heard that as well. Heres a little article about it

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-hall-of-fame/

I did a little statistical research and came up with 4 potential users.

Ryne Sandberg- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...andbry01.shtml

Wade Boggs- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...oggswa01.shtml

Carlton Fisk- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...fiskca01.shtml

Andre Dawson- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...awsoan01.shtml

This is only based on a players statistical output, not any character research.

I think the guy was hinting that both the conversation and HR spike happened in the same year. So depending on what time during '88, he could've been referring to either the '87(if the conversation happened after), '88, or '89 season. Fisk's spike was in '85 and probably too early to coincide with the term "Canseco milkshake". Dawson's '87 is WAY suspicious.. And I agree so was Boggs' '87(his was way out of the ordinary, but I'm willing to concede that sometimes you just have one of those stretches. Sandbergs '90 looks off, but not nearly as suspicious as some others. And as much as it pains me to say this one(with him being my favorite player), Ripken's '91 looks quite a bit out of place.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I think the guy was hinting that both the conversation and HR spike happened in the same year. So depending on what time during '88, he could've been referring to either the '87(if the conversation happened after), '88, or '89 season. Fisk's spike was in '85 and probably too early to coincide with the term "Canseco milkshake". Dawson's '87 is WAY suspicious.. And I agree so was Boggs' '87(his was way out of the ordinary, but I'm willing to concede that sometimes you just have one of those stretches. Sandbergs '90 looks off, but not nearly as suspicious as some others. And as much as it pains me to say this one(with him being my favorite player), Ripken's '91 looks quite a bit out of place.

Dawson's was the one that stood most out to me. I didn't even want to look at Cal's, it would hurt me that another record would be tainted, so I honestly hope that he's clean. The only reason I put Fisk is because he never broke 30 HRs in a season then hits 37 at the age of 37. It can happen as we have seen with Raul Ibanez.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Dawson's was the one that stood most out to me. I didn't even want to look at Cal's, it would hurt me that another record would be tainted, so I honestly hope that he's clean. The only reason I put Fisk is because he never broke 30 HRs in a season then hits 37 at the age of 37. It can happen as we have seen with Raul Ibanez.

Yeah, I'd never noticed it with Cal before, but I looked for the hell of it. His HR's jumped to 34. His previous high was 28 in his rookie season. However, my concerns come from the years that surrounded it. SLG went from .415 in '90 to .566 and then back down to .366 in '92(although this low could have something to do with adjusting to the new ballpark) before he leveled back off to his career average of the low-mid .400s

[itjclarke]

Wasn't '87 also the year of "juiced ball" rumors? I haven't checked overall stats, but just remember there were a lot of ridiculous numbers put up that year. You had McGwire's 49 as a rookie.. Kevin Seitzer hit .327 with about 30 bombs, Matt Nolkes hit over 30, Boggs' 24, Dawson's 47... I think 1986 and 1988 were very tame by comparison. Offense had sagged for most of the 70's and 80's so I halfway believed those rumors... I was also a little kid and very impressionable.

[dgo71]

Yes, 1987 was the juiced ball year. Everyone hit crazy power numbers in '87, but most settled back to normalcy the very next year. I truly believe that year was a case of the ball being altered (wound tighter or made lighter or whatever they did) than anything the players were taking, because the power numbers increased across the board.

If there are PED users in the HOF currently, my money is on Rickey Henderson or Dennis Eckersley, with their time in Oakland around Canseco. That is just a hunch though, I've never seen or read anything to substantiate that theory.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by dgo71

my money is on Rickey Henderson

If that's true, my entire view of modern baseball would change. I think Rickey is one of the top 20 players to ever live.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

If that's true, my entire view of modern baseball would change. I think Rickey is one of the top 20 players to ever live.

LOL. Well don't lose sleep over it, just my "if I had to guess" pick. And it's purely a guess. Guy could just as easily be clean as a whistle.

As far as Cal goes, that'd be to me what Rickey is to you. I've seen Cal more times than I count since the late 80s and he never exuded anything but class. I think Cal was clean. He comes under suspicion because of the consecutive games streak, and playing through pain. But I think Cal was just tough as nails, simple as that. Got it honest from Sr., his dad was as tough as they come. I remember Cal talking about how his dad had an ingrown toenail that was hurting like hell. Sr. just grabbed a drill and bore down into the nail to relieve the pressure, letting out a long "ahhhhh" of relief. That's a tough old bird!

[dgo71]

As an aside, anyone else find it interesting that the poll in this thread greatly reflects the actual HOF voting?

[itjclarke]

Rickey wouldn't surprise me but it would break my heart. There was something about his weird style, hot dog snatch catches, the still framed millions dollar paycheck from Steinbrenner, always referring to himself in the third person reference, and overall total lack of tact that made me love that guy. Also loved that he played for independent minor league teams years after he retired just because he loved to play.

My totally unsubstantiated guess would be Mike Schmidt or Cal Ripken. Ripken is an interesting one, especially if you believe in the legendary Kevin Costner/Cal Ripken wife incident,and in that story, the measures the Orioles supposedly took to protect his image. I'm not saying I believe the story, but I'm sure some of you have heard it, and it was supposedly a known fact in all MLB clubhouses of the era.

Btw- now definitely believe in the 1987 juiced ball... 1961 (Jim Gentile), and 1930 are also very suspicious years.

ADDING- just checked Snopes, they don't believe the Ripken story... Still a very entertaining urban legend though