OT: Who's your vote

[Big Ben]

I treated this poll as for whom I would vote to out into the Hall of Fame today. Limiting this to the options mentioned, my vote was for Biggio, and Lee Smith. I think that in time, more will come out as to who used and did not use PED's. I have read that according to some Hall of Fame players, the rumor is out there that a PED user is already in the Hall of Fame. Interesting.

[kmac32]

Big Lee is one of the all time great relievers and just an all around good guy. Know him well from my years at Cubs camp. Biggio should be in also. Hopefully next year.

[tbob]

Next year: Glavine not a Hall of Famer???? The guy won 305 games. If you let in Don Sutton because he won 300 games and include Ferguson Jenkins, Phil Niekro and Bert Blyleven, how in the world can you exclude Glavine? Glavine and Maddux are no-brainers next year. Thomas should also be in the Hall too.
I remember when Yogi Berra wasn't voted in the first year of his elgibility and Piazza couldn't hold Yogi's jock, so Piazza needs to be patient, like Carter he will get in eventually.
By the way- If I had one game to win I'd still take Jack Morris over Blyleven, Jenkins, Niekro or Sutton. I am beginning to doubt Black Jack ever gets in though, that would be a shame.
Personally until the veterans committee votes in Tony Oliva and Mike Donlin, I'll think the whole system is flawed.

[itjclarke]

I think Glavine needs to be a lock, 1st ballot, not only because he won 300 in an era when pitchers weren't supposed to reach 300 anymore.. but because he was one of the first and only players (Jeff Kent spoke out also) that had the nads to take a stand early on for the implementation of PED testing.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by tbob

If I had one game to win I'd still take Jack Morris over Blyleven, Jenkins, Niekro or Sutton. I am beginning to doubt Black Jack ever gets in though, that would be a shame.
Personally until the veterans committee votes in Tony Oliva and Mike Donlin, I'll think the whole system is flawed.

I'd have to go with Jenkins -- having seen him pitch he was no nonsense, somewhat like Gibson.
Agree that the Vet Ctte is flawed re Oliva and Donlin.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by Big Ben

I have read that according to some Hall of Fame players, the rumor is out there that a PED user is already in the Hall of Fame. Interesting.

I have heard that as well. Heres a little article about it

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-hall-of-fame/

I did a little statistical research and came up with 4 potential users.

Ryne Sandberg- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...andbry01.shtml

Wade Boggs- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...oggswa01.shtml

Carlton Fisk- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...fiskca01.shtml

Andre Dawson- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...awsoan01.shtml

This is only based on a players statistical output, not any character research.

[HRBAKER]

Biggio is probably the lone listee I would vote for.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

I have heard that as well. Heres a little article about it

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-hall-of-fame/

I did a little statistical research and came up with 4 potential users.

Ryne Sandberg- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...andbry01.shtml

Wade Boggs- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...oggswa01.shtml

Carlton Fisk- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...fiskca01.shtml

Andre Dawson- http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...awsoan01.shtml

This is only based on a players statistical output, not any character research.

I think the guy was hinting that both the conversation and HR spike happened in the same year. So depending on what time during '88, he could've been referring to either the '87(if the conversation happened after), '88, or '89 season. Fisk's spike was in '85 and probably too early to coincide with the term "Canseco milkshake". Dawson's '87 is WAY suspicious.. And I agree so was Boggs' '87(his was way out of the ordinary, but I'm willing to concede that sometimes you just have one of those stretches. Sandbergs '90 looks off, but not nearly as suspicious as some others. And as much as it pains me to say this one(with him being my favorite player), Ripken's '91 looks quite a bit out of place.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I think the guy was hinting that both the conversation and HR spike happened in the same year. So depending on what time during '88, he could've been referring to either the '87(if the conversation happened after), '88, or '89 season. Fisk's spike was in '85 and probably too early to coincide with the term "Canseco milkshake". Dawson's '87 is WAY suspicious.. And I agree so was Boggs' '87(his was way out of the ordinary, but I'm willing to concede that sometimes you just have one of those stretches. Sandbergs '90 looks off, but not nearly as suspicious as some others. And as much as it pains me to say this one(with him being my favorite player), Ripken's '91 looks quite a bit out of place.

Dawson's was the one that stood most out to me. I didn't even want to look at Cal's, it would hurt me that another record would be tainted, so I honestly hope that he's clean. The only reason I put Fisk is because he never broke 30 HRs in a season then hits 37 at the age of 37. It can happen as we have seen with Raul Ibanez.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Dawson's was the one that stood most out to me. I didn't even want to look at Cal's, it would hurt me that another record would be tainted, so I honestly hope that he's clean. The only reason I put Fisk is because he never broke 30 HRs in a season then hits 37 at the age of 37. It can happen as we have seen with Raul Ibanez.

Yeah, I'd never noticed it with Cal before, but I looked for the hell of it. His HR's jumped to 34. His previous high was 28 in his rookie season. However, my concerns come from the years that surrounded it. SLG went from .415 in '90 to .566 and then back down to .366 in '92(although this low could have something to do with adjusting to the new ballpark) before he leveled back off to his career average of the low-mid .400s

[itjclarke]

Wasn't '87 also the year of "juiced ball" rumors? I haven't checked overall stats, but just remember there were a lot of ridiculous numbers put up that year. You had McGwire's 49 as a rookie.. Kevin Seitzer hit .327 with about 30 bombs, Matt Nolkes hit over 30, Boggs' 24, Dawson's 47... I think 1986 and 1988 were very tame by comparison. Offense had sagged for most of the 70's and 80's so I halfway believed those rumors... I was also a little kid and very impressionable.

[dgo71]

Yes, 1987 was the juiced ball year. Everyone hit crazy power numbers in '87, but most settled back to normalcy the very next year. I truly believe that year was a case of the ball being altered (wound tighter or made lighter or whatever they did) than anything the players were taking, because the power numbers increased across the board.

If there are PED users in the HOF currently, my money is on Rickey Henderson or Dennis Eckersley, with their time in Oakland around Canseco. That is just a hunch though, I've never seen or read anything to substantiate that theory.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by dgo71

my money is on Rickey Henderson

If that's true, my entire view of modern baseball would change. I think Rickey is one of the top 20 players to ever live.

[itjclarke]

Rickey wouldn't surprise me but it would break my heart. There was something about his weird style, hot dog snatch catches, the still framed millions dollar paycheck from Steinbrenner, always referring to himself in the third person reference, and overall total lack of tact that made me love that guy. Also loved that he played for independent minor league teams years after he retired just because he loved to play.

My totally unsubstantiated guess would be Mike Schmidt or Cal Ripken. Ripken is an interesting one, especially if you believe in the legendary Kevin Costner/Cal Ripken wife incident,and in that story, the measures the Orioles supposedly took to protect his image. I'm not saying I believe the story, but I'm sure some of you have heard it, and it was supposedly a known fact in all MLB clubhouses of the era.

Btw- now definitely believe in the 1987 juiced ball... 1961 (Jim Gentile), and 1930 are also very suspicious years.

ADDING- just checked Snopes, they don't believe the Ripken story... Still a very entertaining urban legend though