OT: Who's your vote

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by packs

League leader means that you produced more than anyone else in the league. It seems like it SHOULD hold stock. Not sure what you're really saying. They're both home run guys and would only get in for their production. McGriff was better for longer. Doesn't that make him the better player? And as I said McGriff was the best homerun hitter for two seasons compared to Bagwell's zero.

But by putting stock in that you're are putting the other players in those years on an even playing field. I'm not saying that it's not a great accomplishment. BUT I don't think it's a valid point when comparing players.

Also, I don't think that "better for longer" is necessarily valid either. McGriff had 3 more seasons(2 healthy) than Bagwell did, and only managed 176 more hits, 44 more HR's, and 21 more RBI's, while Bagwell still managed to lead him in ALL rate categories(.297/.408/.540-.284/.377/.509), 2Bs(488-441), 3Bs(32-24). SBs(202-72), BBs(1401-1305) and HBP(128-39). McGriff also struck out 324 more times.. Bagwell did average 2 more GiDP per season though..

McGriff's postseason performances far outshine Bagwell's though.. I believe McGriff and Gehrig are the only players to reach the 500 club, if you were to count their postseason performances. As they'd both wind up with 503. Sam Rice would reach the 3000 hit club in this scenario(3006).

We can also look at the 11 year span from 1991-2002 when both of their career overlap and both were healthy in the same year..

McGriff 31 35 37 34 27 28 22 19 32 27 31 30
Bagwell 15 18 20 39 21 31 43 34 42 47 39 31

Bagwell lead in 7 of those 11 years.

We can also look at it while mirroring their ages..age 23-36(that's 14 years, and the entirety of Bagg's healthy career)
Mcgriff 20 34 36 35 31 35 37 34 27 28 22 19 32 27
Bagwell 15 18 20 39 21 31 43 34 42 47 39 31 39 27

Bagwell lead at 7 of those ages. McGriff at 5, and they were even twice..

McGriff did have 31 and 30 in his two uncontested ages(again not counting his 2 short years at the end), So even if we assume give those to McGriff, they're tied up at 7-7-2.

[packs]

I see what you're saying. But with two players who played the same position and finished with similar numbers it seems odd that one would receive nearly 60 percent of the votes while the other finished with 20 percent. Writers voting for Bagwell should ask themselves why they aren't voting for McGriff.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by packs

... with two players who played the same position and finished with similar numbers it seems odd that one would receive nearly 60 percent of the votes while the other finished with 20 percent. Writers voting for Bagwell should ask themselves why they aren't voting for McGriff.

I'm sure those voters wouldn't be able to offer a reasonable explanation

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by packs

I see what you're saying. But with two players who played the same position and finished with similar numbers it seems odd that one would receive nearly 60 percent of the votes while the other finished with 20 percent. Writers voting for Bagwell should ask themselves why they aren't voting for McGriff.

I completely agree. I could see McGriff getting a few less votes, but definitely not 211 less.. And again as I've said all along. BOTH belong in..

I could add Walker to this as well. But he was an OF and the Coors factor plays too big into the discussion. But for Christ's sake, the guy batter over .350 4 times.. with 7 Gold Gloves..

I also wish people would've taken a little more time to look at Albert Belle though. Sure he only had 10 full seasons. But damn, he put up some big numbers during that stretch.. Sure he was a d1ck, and pulled the cork stunt, but I don't ever recall anyone linking him to steroids.. I'm fine with him not getting in, but he barely got a second though..

[packs]

I'm with you on Walker. What a hitter. Can people really say with a straight face that he wasn't better than Rice and Dawson? Baseball Reference ranks him as the 9th best right fielder of all time. How does a top ten player at his position not get into the HOF?