INSIGHTS..Senator Russell's T206 & T210 coll. (incl. DOYLE error & Ty Cobb back)

[ethicsprof]

great research!!!
many thanks for the efforts and sharing.
all the best,
barry

[steve B]

Not a 350, but a nice handcut Ewing. Normal otherwise as far as I can tell.

Steve B

[tedzan]

Judging from Russell's OLD MILL collection, it seems that American Litho. printed and issued T206 OM & T210 OM cards
approx. the same timeframe in 1910.

T206 OLD MILL

Major & Minor Leaguers = 34 subjects

Southern Leaguers = 22 subjects


T210 OLD MILL

Series 1..... 70 subjects
Series 2..... 12 subjects
Series 3..... 12 subjects
Series 4...... 2 subjects
Series 5..... 17 subjects
Series 6...... 2 subjects
Series 7...... 4 subjects
Series 8..... 67 subjects

Total....... 186 subjects


I find it quite interesting that Russell accumulated 60% of the Series 8 sub-set, but wasn't lucky to get a Joe Jackson.


TED Z

[Piratedogcardshows]

Interesting T210 breakdown.I thought living in Georgia the packs would contain Series 1 and 8.I always thought that maybe T210's were distributed by the area you lived in,like Series 2 for Virginia.He had a few cards from all Series does that suggest one could basically pull any Series from a pack all over the country where Old Mill Cigarettes were sold?

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Judging from Russell's OLD MILL collection, it seems that American Litho. printed and issued T206 OM & T210 OM cards
approx. the same timeframe in 1910.

T206 OLD MILL

Major & Minor Leaguers = 34 subjects

Southern Leaguers = 22 subjects


T210 OLD MILL

Series 1..... 70 subjects
Series 2..... 12 subjects
Series 3..... 12 subjects
Series 4...... 2 subjects
Series 5..... 17 subjects
Series 6...... 2 subjects
Series 7...... 4 subjects
Series 8..... 67 subjects

Total....... 186 subjects


I find it quite interesting that Russell accumulated 60% of the Series 8 sub-set, but wasn't lucky to get a Joe Jackson.


TED Z

Hi Ted - Perhaps the reason Russell didn't score a Jackson was b/c he acquired most/all of his T210-8's during the early months in 1910 !? (I think the Jackson was distributed later in 1910 in a 2nd release) - Can you direct me where I can see the 67 player's names that he owned in the T210-8 series ?
Hope all is well, Jeremy

[tedzan]

I will post the names of the Series 8 cards later this evening.

Thanks for the info regarding Joe Jax being in a 2nd release of Series 8 cards.
I know there 114 subjects in this Series. What is the numerical breakdown of this Series ?

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by NashvilleBaseball

Hi Ted - Perhaps the reason Russell didn't score a Jackson was b/c he acquired most/all of his T210-8's during the early months in 1910 !? (I think the Jackson was distributed later in 1910 in a 2nd release) - Can you direct me where I can see the 67 player's names that he owned in the T210-8 series ?
Hope all is well, Jeremy

Jeremy......here you go

Allen (Mobile)
Anderson
Bartley
Bay
Berger
Bernhard
Bitteroff
Ted Breitenstein
Bronke
Brooks
Cafalu
Case
Cohen
Crandall
Cross
Jud Daly
Davis
DeMontreville
E.DeMontreville
Dick
Elliott
Erloff
Fleharty
Flood
Fritz
Greminger
Griffin
Hart
Hess
Hickman
Hohnhorst
Huelsman
Kelly
Kerwin
La fitte
Larsen
Bill Lindsey
Lynch
Manush
Marcan
Mccreery
Miller (Montgomery)
Molesworth
Newton
Nolley
Patterson
Perdue
Pratt
Rementer
Robertson
Rogers
Rohe
Schopp
Seabough
Seitz
Siegle
Steele
Swacina
Sweeney
Thomas (fielding)
Vinson
Wagner (Mobile)
Walker
Welf
Whiteman
Whitney
Wiseman


TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

Jason, my understanding and current belief is that the red border Old Mill cards were distributed regionally. There was a bit of nationwide distribution, but little. For the most part, to the extent that different series are found in old collections, it was due to a bit of trading, or traveling. Consider when the good Senator was a kid, and he had an Old Mill smoking uncle who traveled a bit... might not that uncle buy a few packs of cigarettes as he traveled around, and wouldn't he save those 'foreign' red border cards for his fanatic nephew?

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Jason, my understanding and current belief is that the red border Old Mill cards were distributed regionally. There was a bit of nationwide distribution, but little. For the most part, to the extent that different series are found in old collections, it was due to a bit of trading, or traveling. Consider when the good Senator was a kid, and he had an Old Mill smoking uncle who traveled a bit... might not that uncle buy a few packs of cigarettes as he traveled around, and wouldn't he save those 'foreign' red border cards for his fanatic nephew?

Thank you for the clarification Frank.That makes sense.I would like to see this collection one day.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Jason, my understanding and current belief is that the red border Old Mill cards were distributed regionally.

I believe the Old Mill advertisements support this regional distribution belief. It appears the ATC advertisements, originally used for the T206 set, were reused later in 1910 for the T210 set. The advertisement below ran in November of 1910 long after the T206 southern league cards had been discontinued. It specifically mentions that two cards of Texas League baseball pictures would be included.

[DixieBaseball]

I concur with the thoughts of Frank and Tim on the regional distribution for T210's. I also believe (just my opinion) there might have been 2 releases of T210 Series 8's. I think initially there were only 75 T210 Series 8's distributed, then later or at a different time in 1910 an additional 39 were also distributed/released with the 1st release of 75. I don't think this was intentional, but perhaps rather they decided to add a few teams/regional areas to production/release. I have been collecting/tracking this series for 13 years or so and while most of the series is scarce, there are 39 cards in this series that are rare in my opinion. The players in the 8 series that have a card in the T211 Red Sun series, while scarce, come up with more frequency than the other 39 cards.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Jason, my understanding and current belief is that the red border Old Mill cards were distributed regionally. There was a bit of nationwide distribution, but little. For the most part, to the extent that different series are found in old collections, it was due to a bit of trading, or traveling. Consider when the good Senator was a kid, and he had an Old Mill smoking uncle who traveled a bit... might not that uncle buy a few packs of cigarettes as he traveled around, and wouldn't he save those 'foreign' red border cards for his fanatic nephew?

FRANK

Russell's biography informs us that his father, Judge Richard B. Russell, Sr., traveled a lot (circa 1908-1911). In his travels, the Judge most likely saved for his son the
T210 cards he pulled out of OLD MILL packs, since he was well aware of Jr.'s avid enthusiasm for BB.

This could account for the various T210 Series cards in Russell's collection. Certainly, the Series 1 cards were available in Russell's district. This is reflected in his near
complete run (70 cards of 74) of the South Atlantic League.


TED Z

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jeremy......here you go

Allen (Mobile)
Anderson
Bartley
Bay
Berger
Bernhard
Bitteroff
Ted Breitenstein
Bronke
Brooks
Cafalu
Case
Cohen
Jud Daly
Davis
DeMontreville
E.DeMontreville
Dick
Elliott
Erloff
Fisher
Fleharty
Flood
Fritz
Greminger
Griffin
Hart
Hess
Hickman
Hohnhorst
Howard
Huelsman
Kelly
Kerwin
La fitte
Larsen
Bill Lindsey
Lynch
Manion
Marcan
Miller (Montgomery)
Molesworth
Newton
Nolley
Patterson
Perdue
Pratt
Robertson
Rogers
Rowe
Schopp
Seabough
Seitz
Siegle
Steele
Swacina
Sweeney
Thomas (fielding)
Titman
Tydeman
Vinson
Wagner (Mobile)
Walker
Welf
Whiteman
Whitney
Wiseman


TED Z

Ted - This list should be at 63 as Manion, Titman, Tydeman, and Howard are from other series. So Russell had 63 of 114 Series 8 cards. What I see from his list is 54 1st release and 9 2nd release cards from the series 8.