Bidding on your own auction

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Just looked at my feedback. One purchase from Probstein123 this year.
One underbidder (y***s) with a feedback over 1200 bid with a price ending in .99 also. Feedback percentage with seller: 79%! Zero bid retractions.
A quick search reveals this bidder's ID. I won't post it.
Odd to say the least.
Looking at the variety of stuff y***s has won from him - just weird.

A friend of mine just won an unrelated card from him this week. The under bidder has private FB and nearly 90% with this seller... Funny .99 bid amounts again.

sounds like a friend or relative of the seller. Some of the shill accounts that big sellers use have high enough feedback of their own that it can throw off the casual observer and have them believing that nothing suspicious is going on when a guy bids .99 increments loads of times in one auction and has 75%-100% bidding history with one seller. Remember...there are flea marketers that have 7,8,9,10 different accounts on ebay why should it be any different for a dishonest baseball card dealer who is struggling to make a dime the Honest way. The fact that Ebay allows them to shill with impunity is no excuse for them doing it , I think it sucks and they ruin a neat hobby and discourage newbies from getting involved at all. This discusion has been had over and over though on this board about shilling at auction houses and on Ebay by supposed reputable sellers with great reputations in the hobby. Shilling has only gotten worse and some cases more brazen...if we really wanted to a bunch of people who know what they are doing could probably put a list together of Ebay sellers thay believe engage in nefarious activity, or we could just start telling people why we don't or won't bid with certain sellers
*signed fuming mad Dave in Ohio *

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206DK

Some of the shill accounts that big sellers use have high enough feedback of their own that it can throw off the casual observer

It was easy to spot shilling ten years ago. Not so easy anymore, and that's the way ebay wants it. Consignors and sellers are happy, customers also - as long as they can add cool stuff to their collections, they'll turn a blind eye. That leaves no one upset with the situation other than the smaller sellers, and ebay doesn't want smaller sellers.

If it makes you feel any better, ebay is squeezing out the auction format in favor of the Amazon model, but no telling how long that will take.

Originally Posted by T206DK

if we really wanted to a bunch of people who know what they are doing could probably put a list together of Ebay sellers thay believe engage in nefarious activity, or we could just start telling people why we don't or won't bid with certain sellers
*signed fuming mad Dave in Ohio *

Haha. Try that and you'll make more enemies than friends.

[T206DK]

Scott, I suspect you are right on all points made. I think Ebay will soon be a buy it now web site with no real auctions at all.
I think discussing the shilling activity we have experienced on Ebay is a good thing in that it alerts others to what may be going on and may make people pay more attention to who is bidding against them. Some of these sellers read this forum and may even be members so one might think that they would reply to these posts. The only seller I remember replying to posts about shilling was the guy who sells the Helmar cards that are made to look old.

[ScottFandango]

This stinks

This guy is a Legend on the PSA boards..

There was a recent thread " why doesn't everyone consign with probstein?"..agh

[Leon]

First of all, on this forum, these threads won't go poof. Secondly, make sure your name is in your post if you are making negative (or positive) claims concerning a person or business. Otherwise, on that front, we are wide open.

I don't think it's Probstein doing anything himself (or their self). I do think he could be more diligent on watching for this shady bidding that seems to be going on and helping to avoid it. He might get so many consignments that he can't keep up with the shilling of his consignors? Maybe this is one of the reasons some of the biggest ebay sellers get so many consignments AND their prices often seem to be above market. This is also a reason you can't just use VCP blindly. You really need to look at the auction, other historical sales and the card characteristics to make a valuation decision.

[jp1216]

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

Jon- the sellers see all bidders full details concerning their USER ID. They know who is bidding or can certainly find out very easily, I would think.

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think it's Probstein doing anything himself (or their self). I do think he could be more diligent on watching for this shady bidding that seems to be going on and helping to avoid it. He might get so many consignments that he can't keep up with the shilling of his consignors?

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

Exactly. The seller would know about the continuous retractions. My thinking is that an honest seller wouldn't want a shill screwing with their auctions. More importantly, an honest seller would quickly and vigorously respond to allegations of underhanded activities. If I were accused of these things, I would be outraged and would certainly respond.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

I guess I would also like to know the reasoning behind this as well. If the same bidder had retracted 43 bids on my auctions, I wouldn't want them bidding on my listings. With such a high number of retractions by the same person, it certainly looks like the artificial manipulation of prices.