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[obcmac]

I think focusing on the backs while ignoring total population numbers, is a flawed approach. There are clear sps that are shown in both populations and known historically. I think the printing arrangement is complex though.

If you look at the total populations, I agree there are 12 short prints who were replaced by ml'ers. Exactly 12. Then there is another class of tougher commons printed in the same quantities as the ml'ers, suggesting the were introduced with them. I think the front variations and alternate poses (all one ear varieties etc) were introduced at the 65% mark as t202 design and production were ramping up. Double prints on the short printed series confuses everything though. I speculate the pose variations were double printed along with some other cards including the rare variations at the end of the print run.

Obviously the best approach matches populations with back theories.

Discussion welcome...I'm just putting ideas out there.

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[Wite3]

The moveable type might have been easy to switch but the front part, most likely not. Someone with more experience on printing than I would know better.

I do not think he was just talking about pop reports or grading companies. But even if we were...flaws and all, more Millers have been graded than Grants...do you really think that people hoarding them would not have them graded to maximize their "investment"?

The traditional SPs in the set are there because the numbers bear out the rarities of these cards. You essentially ignored my points about collections, hobby publications, historical sales, auctions, etc.

And, if you really want to belabor the point...I have 13 Doyles I will sell you at Suggs prices right now.

Joshua

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[Wite3]

Now I am really confused...super prints? Never really heard of that with T205s...If you want to use SP, most of use think of that as single print=rare.

Suggs is tough. You cannot just go by pop reports.

I also think you just managed to insult many collectors. I consider myself a smart collector and often make my collection public. Leon, Pat, Bill, and many many others who have historically had top tier and rare collections often make them available for others to see. I know there are some that have held them back (Keith!) but for the most part, over the past few decades, most of us are pretty up front.

Your posts are confusing...granted, I might be sick and just not understanding but from the two or three emails and PMs I have gotten in the last hour I am not alone in my confusion.

I still maintain that it is impossible to know print runs and to determine scarcity on advertising backs is nearly impossible. Determining the matrix of the cards on the sheets is just as tough. I am not trying to be difficult, I just want to understand.

Joshua

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[HercDriver]

Just settle it...Andrew can send Joshua a Suggs, and Joshua can send Andrew a Doyle. If that's not fair based on what I've read, then I guess I'm not reading it right...

Take Care,
Geno