vintage Ruth wire photos

[billyb]

Originally Posted by Runscott

'Legit' can mean a lot of different things when it comes to photos - you have to look at the quality of the image, the paper, the printing technique, the back.

Guys like Henry and a few of the folks you'll meet here, can certainly help you learn how to do that yourself - it's just a matter of handling a lot of photos and having an 'eye' for it. Some have such an 'eye', some don't - it's not a bad thing if you don't. I haven't met anyone here yet, who offered bad advice with regards to photos - they either offer no advice, or good advice.

But I can't see ever sending photos anywhere to have them authenticated, unless it's very cheap or free. I've seen plenty of authentication mistakes from the slabbers, but very rarely by any of the people I have been discussing vintage photos with for over a decade.

And if you are worried about re-sell value, just consign them raw to Henry. I can promise you that he gets the best prices of anyone - there are many board members here who buy from him, and don't trust any photo unless they acquire it from Henry, or it's slabbed.

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
The two I have posted were just two picked out at random, and still had the plastic sleeve over the picture when copied. Family will gather during holidays and discuss whether to sell or not, but who knows how long these wire photos will stay hot. So I do believe they are going to sell. I have some contacts in the sport card business, that is the only reason Iam testing the market for the owner (a cousin) Just getting imput on these photos so they have some information when comes time for decision. That is why I appreciate all imput I get from everyone.
The family just came into possession of them several months ago, but never checked what they had until they mentioned these photos to me. I did not know about them either, but I knew who to go to to get an understanding about them. It is a little overwheming for them and a decision of when to sell will be somewhat slow, I think they want to hold onto them for a couple more months, just to admire them before letting them go.

billyb

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
billyb

For selling, certainly - he's figured out how to get top dollar. This thread got me to thinking about collector knowledge when it comes to photos. It's always been curious to me that anyone could collect something without having the skills to determine if the items are legit, but you see it all the time, especially with autographs, and also, amazingly, with photographs. If they aren't in plastic, they aren't real. People missing out on great deals that they could take advantage of if they'd educate themselves more, and lose the dependence on 3rd-party authenticators.

It's very refreshing to see auction houses like Lelands, who you know are selling primarily to knowledgeable collectors. 'See' some of you tomorrow night

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by billyb

Thanx again Scott,
As I said before, I am not a collector or a dealer, but everyone seems to lead me toward Henry, which I am going to do.
The two I have posted were just two picked out at random, and still had the plastic sleeve over the picture when copied. Family will gather during holidays and discuss whether to sell or not, but who knows how long these wire photos will stay hot. So I do believe they are going to sell. I have some contacts in the sport card business, that is the only reason Iam testing the market for the owner (a cousin) Just getting imput on these photos so they have some information when comes time for decision. That is why I appreciate all imput I get from everyone.
The family just came into possession of them several months ago, but never checked what they had until they mentioned these photos to me. I did not know about them either, but I knew who to go to to get an understanding about them. It is a little overwheming for them and a decision of when to sell will be somewhat slow, I think they want to hold onto them for a couple more months, just to admire them before letting them go.

billyb

Billy... with these sort of photos I would definitely go with HYEE. There are reasons why everyone tells you to go to him. Good luck with your family's collection!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Billy... with these sort of photos I would definitely go with HYEE. There are reasons why everyone tells you to go to him. Good luck with your family's collection!

Ben, I certainly understand why you would send your photos to Henry. He can tell you if they are real or not. But you are also welcome to post your questions here, and myself and others will be more than happy to help educate you.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ben, I certainly understand why you would send your photos to Henry. He can tell you if they are real or not. But you are also welcome to post your questions here, and myself and others will be more than happy to help educate you.

Here we go again... You gotta make this thread personal too?? Runscott, I am not going to get in a peeing match over photos with you. Because, quite frankly.. I gotta work and simply, would be no competition( I am pretty sure most everyone in this area of the hobby would agree). I know it is hard for you to see others get into and excel in a sector of the hobby that you once THOUGHT you were relavent in.
The fact is, you never were and surely are not now.

As far as slabbed photos go. There is a place just like in cards as it is very very hard to determine by scans online. The paper, how it responds under a black light, how the photo looks under a loop(picture and paper fibers), the stamps ect cannot be done by a scan.
Those who think they can magically tell, are out of their minds. I will let you think of who that may be.

Now.. one thing Henry Yee has done over countless hours of research is catalog stamps. Which has helped in determining photos online but now crooks are counterfeiting those. This single thing that couldn’t be found doing google searches, was huge. The ones who state they know what they are doing have used his research whether they want to admit it or not.

Do I know everything? No I do not and have made many mistakes(even this year).. but know quite a bit. Have a nice day runscott LESS DRAMA PLEASE

[drc]

The photos posted at the start of this thread were original and/or vintage. If the others are like those, the poster doesn't need to get LOAs. However, if he wishes to consign them to some them for auction, I can understand that. If you have 30 original Ruth photos, a lot of good auction houses would be interested.

Over the years a lot of collectors have asked me about press photos on eBay. They're very interested in a particular one on eBay, but aren't photo collectors and don't know how you can tell if a photo is new or old, original or reprint. So I can understand how a PSA LOA can add $$ to final auction price.

Though I agree with Scott's points about if you're knowledgeable you don't have to pay extra for a LOA and can find hidden deals. And a lot of the knowledge required to identify press photos isn't rocket science, just having done your homework.

There are many areas of collecting I'm not knowledgeable about (I know, hard to believe), so I'm not suggesting I would never buy an item because it came with a third party opinion. If I was buying a Ming vase, I most definitely would like a third party opinion from an expert in that field.

I always use Ming vases as the example as they're expensive, rare and I nothing about them. For a long while I assumed Ming was the sound you they made when you taped them with your fingernail . . . But I'm going to get some books and by next year I'll be mocking all your ignorance about Ming vases.

[Shoeless Moe]

Ben, not to be a d-ck, but I'm confused on this thread you state "Go with Hank Yee", but in the other HYEE thread for pickups, you compliment people on getting them at great prices.

That kinda conflicts don't you think.

If peep are getting them at great prices not sure u'd want to go with HYEE, yes I know he gets lots of exposure, thus increasing the chance for a higher take, but if u are giving some dollars to Ebay, some to Paypal, some to PSA to grade/Encaps, and some to HYEE to list, seems like u be better off going with an auction house, so u don't have to go through PSA or sell them yourself on EBAY with BIN.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Ben, not to be a d-ck, but I'm confused on this thread you state "Go with Hank Yee", but in the other HYEE thread for pickups, you compliment people on getting them at great prices.

That kinda conflicts don't you think.

If peep are getting them at great prices not sure u'd want to go with HYEE, yes I know he gets lots of exposure, thus increasing the chance for a higher take, but if u are giving some dollars to Ebay, some to Paypal, some to PSA to grade/Encaps, and some to HYEE to list, seems like u be better off going with an auction house, so u don't have to go through PSA or sell them yourself on EBAY with BIN.

I hope that I'm not stepping on Ben's toes with this response, but I think if you look at any major auction, be it auction house or individual, on eBay or otherwise, you can pick and choose and find high and low water marks for different items. Henry Yee's auctions are no different: there will always be some "good deals" had among the 1000+ lots offered. (I know of at least 2 instances where the very photo that I sold previously turned up in one of his auctions and wound up selling for less than I had gotten for it). The difference I think is that, if you averaged out all of those prices over the entire auction, in the category of sports photographs in particular you will see a much higher average than typically realized through any of the auction houses.

The difference between Yee and a major auction house in the category of photos is the attention to detail he gives with his descriptions, his knowledge of the subject matter, and his willingness to offer them as individuals or small groups with the same attention that most auction houses would reserve for their "key" photo offerings. Typically when you see photos offered through an auction house, you will see a few scattered individual photos that may or may not have very detailed descriptions, and then a handful of "lots" of photos with generalized semi-boilerplate descriptions that don't give a full (or often accurate) depiction of the photos included. In a group of 30 "vintage photos" you may see front scans of 5-10 of them, MAYBE a back scan of 1 or 2 (if you're lucky), and a generalized description giving a range of decades represented, the Hall of Famers appearing in them, and throwing around terms like "wire photo," "original," "Type 1," "vintage", etc with varying degrees of accuracy. How they can expect to get top dollar for a lot of photos and not show most of them is beyond me.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like it when auction houses fumble with their handling of large lots of photos like this as long as I'm on the buying end. That's where I like to pick them up to re-sell individually, because that's what I do. If I were consigning though and wanted to get the most bang for my commission buck, I would be much more likely to go with Henry. I don't know how many times I've said to myself (as I'm entering a bid with an auction house), "Man, I would be ticked if it were my collection being presented this way." I've never found myself saying that with Henry's offerings. More often with him it's, "Man, I would love to have that, but I can't afford to keep it and I would just lose money trying to flip it."

[mybestbretts]

Again, good luck to you. You have found the right place for help.
Sandy

[billyb]

Originally Posted by mybestbretts

Again, good luck to you. You have found the right place for help.
Sandy

Sandy,
I agree with you, this is the right place. digging into the depth of all the messages, I knew they were more than experts in their field. True professionalism is the title.
I hope to post one more photo, this time of one of the editors copies, if my cousin ever reads his email. I read another thread which involved these editors copies. Scott, you and the others within that thread made one point that I agree with. No matter how many editors marks are on that photo, I will never allow any of those photos to be touched up for sale. That would be the collectors who buy them to clean the photo if they wish.
I would ask for several more to post, but my cousin will be busy making copies for HYEE to view in Jan.

DRC
This Texas northern stuff I have to stay clear from. I too am a Northerner, born and bred, but one of my sons and all my grandchildren are being raised in Texas. I am now in Houston as I type this thread. So I Texans for grandchildren. Got to say though, with the snow storm that hit Michigan, I a glad to be here now.

billyb

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Scott, you and the others within that thread made one point that I agree with. No matter how many editors marks are on that photo, I will never allow any of those photos to be touched up for sale. That would be the collectors who buy them to clean the photo if they wish.
I would ask for several more to post, but my cousin will be busy making copies for HYEE to view in Jan.

billyb

Billy, whether or not you take my advice is not important - I have no horse in this race and have the skill to authenticate my own photos If you would like to pay someone to tell you whether or not your photos are real, then you should do so. It's a very popular route to go these days. Good luck.

[billyb]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Billy, whether or not you take my advice is not important - I have no horse in this race and have the skill to authenticate my own photos If you would like to pay someone to tell you whether or not your photos are real, then you should do so. It's a very popular route to go these days. Good luck.

Scott
I know where you are coming from, I truly do, but I am more afraid of selling a photo that was not a true type 1 or 2, I do not have that skill to judge, and I know that other experts like yourself would know the difference. But if even one photo was misgraded or somehow slipped though and graded incorrectly, than the rest of the collection could loose its luster with the collectors. Or what if a novice collector were to buy that error, and not know the difference. I feel confident with anyone of you, who have responded, and would feel comfortable with anyone of you, but the common denominator seemed to be Mr. Yee.
Scott, thank you for all you information, and by the way, my son who lives in Houston said "Dallas who???" That's not from me, I am still trying to root for the Lions, just visiting in Houston for now. I have Texas grandchildren.
billyb

[drc]

The common denominator was not Mr. Yee. That he has a spirited cheerleading squad doesn't make him a common denominator. However, he's competent with your types of photos and would do a fine job identifying then.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by drc

The common denominator was not Mr. Yee. That he has a spirited cheerleading squad doesn't make him a common denominator. However, he's competent with your types of photos and would do a fine job identifying then.

Henry and Marshall also invented the classification system which you and others regularly plagiarize and use with no credit given. I admit I use their terminology too but I don't get paid for my services. Just something to think about. And I should add, if that Type 1-thru Type 4 system was used before they put it out I would like to know so I can be as correct as possible, but I believe what I am saying is true.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by billyb

Scott
I know where you are coming from, I truly do, but I am more afraid of selling a photo that was not a true type 1 or 2, I do not have that skill to judge, and I know that other experts like yourself would know the difference. But if even one photo was misgraded or somehow slipped though and graded incorrectly, than the rest of the collection could loose its luster with the collectors. Or what if a novice collector were to buy that error, and not know the difference. I feel confident with anyone of you, who have responded, and would feel comfortable with anyone of you, but the common denominator seemed to be Mr. Yee.
Scott, thank you for all you information, and by the way, my son who lives in Houston said "Dallas who???" That's not from me, I am still trying to root for the Lions, just visiting in Houston for now. I have Texas grandchildren.
billyb

Billy, you make good points.

[drc]

They put out the Type I terminology first. That doesn't make it worthwhile terminology. I'm sure I could put out a color coded system.

I describe photos using the English language: Original, original printed later, later generation. Unlike with Type I, I never have to explain to a collector what original means.

Sorry if I say my (and everyone else's in the photo world who doesn't collect PSA or Beckett), the English language system, is the superior system. It's known as describing a photo in words people know and understand. I will be bold and say that using common English words is 10x better than using some convoluted type system. I didn't say the Type system was incorrect, just a pointless and pointlessly confusing. It's a gimmick for graded card collectors.

People come on this board often and say "What does Type I mean?" Does anyone every come on this board and say "What does original mean?" I've never had to explain to anyone what an 'original' painting means.

When I worked for Beckett, they used the Type system, but that had nothing to do with me. I wasn't a fan of that system then, didn't use it, but Beckett decided how to label things not me.

As I said before, press photos aren't a terribly complicated area of photography to identify. You don't have to be Sir Isaac Newton to tackle it. Along that line, do I think Yee and PSA/DNA is competent at labeling press photos? Yes. The PSA LOA's I've seen have been accurate in their descriptions.


* * * *

"What kind of photo is that?"
"It's a Type I"
"What does Type I mean?"
"Original."
"Then why don't you just call it original?"
"Because I'm lame and stupid and girls hate me."
"Oh, okay, as long as you have a reason."

Calm down, it's just a joke. Everyone knows PSA collectors are the smoothest and hippest of the graded sports ephemera collectors. Women love a man with holograms.

[billyb]

Hi all,
I forgot to ask one other question about the collection my cousin has, some of the photos are shown like a mirror image (reversed). Would that be a good indication that they are original?

Billyb

[drc]

I don't think it proves anything either way. A negative is transparent so you print from it 'foreword' or 'backward.'

[billyb]

Originally Posted by drc

I don't think it proves anything either way. A negative is transparent so you print from it 'foreword' or 'backward.'

Thanx DRC,

My way of thinking was if it was a negative, it would be an original, but I guess I was mistaken, thanx.

billyb

[drc]

I understand your thought process, but everything was printed from a negative that could be flipped either way.