n172 Old Judge Pretzels "Getzien/Cetzein" Joke Card

cyseymour · #1 12-16-2012, 07:02 AM

Joe,

Thanks for posting the high-res OJ scan. It makes clear something I couldn't discern in the book. It would be really interesting to do the same thing with the McCreachery card and see whether it was really meant to be a C or a G. Unless that type of scan is already accessible, that would require the cooperation of the owner of the card, presumably.

Regards

Joe_G. · #2 12-16-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Joe,

Thanks for posting the high-res OJ scan. It makes clear something I couldn't discern in the book. It would be really interesting to do the same thing with the McCreachery card and see whether it was really meant to be a C or a G. Unless that type of scan is already accessible, that would require the cooperation of the owner of the card, presumably.

Regards

The inquiry into a better resolution scan of McCreachery has been made, but logistics will not allow for a quick turnaround.

Straying a bit off topic, I find the evolution of the negative to be impressive. Not only did "DETROIT" disappear off the jersey but the pin stripes were drawn back in to improve the appearance post "DETROIT" removal. This extends throughout the whole shirt. Somehow, Getzien looks heavier in the 1889 rendition.

RCMcKenzie · #3 12-16-2012, 01:28 PM

Joe,

You mention that Lew Lipset actually owned this card for a while. He refers to the card as " McGreachery" in his encyclopedia and states .."none is quite sure who that is supposed to be." So, I assume he also showed the card to anyone who might know more about it at the time.

When was the photo identified as Deacon White? When did people start spelling the name with a "C". I noticed in the 'archive' OJ thread that you refer to the card as 'McGreachery' circa 2005/6.

If you look at the Emil Geiss portrait BIN card on ebay it looks like it could say Ceiss from the scan.

slidekellyslide · #4 12-16-2012, 02:24 PM

Internet newspaper archives are littered with misspellings because the machines that read the papers and translate it onto the internet confuse letters all the time. This is very common.

cyseymour · #5 12-16-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Joe,

If you look at the Emil Geiss portrait BIN card on ebay it looks like it could say Ceiss from the scan.

Looking at the Geiss scan closely, I can see that at the bottom of the first letter of his name, there is a small point sticking out to make it a G.

Looking at the McCreachery card in the book, the letter C, it really does seem like there is something there that makes it a G instead of a C. This is just conjecture, but I am becoming more and more convinced it is really a G.

I looked up the census records for the name "Greacher" on Ancestry.com, and it turns out there were some people (two or three) with the name of Greacher who were living in the US at that time.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/s...p=0&gl=35&gst=

It could be that the name is Greacher, and that my original theory that was the first post in the other thread, that the name was spun to seem Irish by putting a "Mc" and "y" on it, may have been right all along.

novakjr · #6 12-16-2012, 05:58 PM

Not to start anything. But greachery, is listed as a common misspelling for Treachery. Completely understandable, considering that the G is right below the T on a keyboard.. Co-incidentally, the definitions of Creachery(contextually based on how it was most often used) and Treachey are very similar in nature..

cyseymour · #7 12-16-2012, 06:15 PM

David,

The term creach later became used to describe plundering (probably derived from falling, ie, "fall from grace".)

I hadn't realized that Creachery was a word... very interesting. That means it would have been pronounced "McCreh" and not "McCree" since we know the pronunciation of "treachery".

That might make the McCrea/Chery riddle more likely in a way, seeing that the pronunciation is the same, and not pronounced "McCree".

Well, here you are getting me going again.

Let's see if we can find out if it was a C or G before we go any further... too much left to question right now unless we really know the name.

Cheers

Joe_G. · #8 12-16-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Joe,

When did people start spelling the name with a "C". I noticed in the 'archive' OJ thread that you refer to the card as 'McGreachery' circa 2005/6.

The card was studied during the writing of the Old Judge book (2008-2009) and we felt it was McCreachery. Prior to this, I knew the card as McGreachery based on Lew Lipset's 19th Century encyclopedia. I would like to take a closer look at it and hope to eventually have a high resolution scan for all of us to study. This will take some time however due to owner and card locations. As has been stated several times, the "C" and "G" look nearly the same so it is easy to confuse them. More to come . . .

On a side note, we made 100s of changes and updates to previously available materials regarding the Old Judge set when we published the book. A change from McGreachery to McCreachery was not unusual given the sheer volume of other changes that were made. Many of our updates were minor such as switching order of poses for a player to match chronology of photos (Tip O'Neill - 3 different photo shoots from 3 different years) or the countless pose description changes to reflect a more consistent pose nomenclature. Many more discoveries have been made since the book, some of them being covered in short articles in OC Magazine such as the Gypsy Queen cards that constitute new poses and the discovery of Tug Wilson under the guise of Joseph Miller. I continue to study Detroit OJs in the smallest of details while Jay seems to do the same for all teams! Most of the missing poses have also been located. Its a fascinating set that is so rich in history. I'm so thankful for Goodwin & their little photographic baseball keepsakes.

cyseymour · #9 12-17-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

The card was studied during the writing of the Old Judge book (2008-2009) and we felt it was McCreachery. Prior to this, I knew the card as McGreachery based on Lew Lipset's 19th Century encyclopedia. I would like to take a closer look at it and hope to eventually have a high resolution scan for all of us to study. This will take some time however due to owner and card locations. As has been stated several times, the "C" and "G" look nearly the same so it is easy to confuse them. More to come . . .

Its a fascinating set that is so rich in history. I'm so thankful for Goodwin & their little photographic baseball keepsakes.

Thanks Joe. I agree that it's a truly fascinating set... perhaps the most fascinating in existence if you really think about it. So charismatic, too, with all the joke cards, fun poses, etc.

For the sake of conversation, I'm going to assume it's McCreachery for the time being since that's the last judgement that was make on the card in person.

cyseymour · #10 12-17-2012, 07:25 AM

Another point I'd like to make is that the manager of Indianapolis at the time, Spence, was only thirty years old, while Deacon White was 40 and still playing. Sort of furthers the likelihood that the card was a joke.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
1970 Rold Gold Pretzels and 1972 Kelloggs All Time Baseball	leftygrove10	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	06-06-2011 10:34 AM
Wanted: 1970 Rold Gold Pretzels...	leftygrove10	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	03-01-2011 06:26 AM
1970 Rold Gold Pretzels PSA Mint 9 ALL SOLD!	old-baseball	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	4	02-07-2011 07:17 PM
1970 Rold Gold Pretzels Lot of (12) - Raw	old-baseball	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	3	11-29-2010 09:26 PM
Is this a joke? Was this card graded on April 1st?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	17	01-26-2005 11:22 PM