O/T feel sick inside - CT Elementary shooting

[packs]

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

I think that's an aspirational goal with which everyone would agree, but how realistic is that? What specifically do you propose to do? What does it mean, let's get at the root of what drives people to kill?

[packs]

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people as they can at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country. I understand that a gun allows a person to inflict mass damage with minimum effort. But why is that person holding it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country.

How do you propose to figure that out? Appoint a commission of psychologists to interview those perpetrators who survived and their families? I really don't understand how we could get meaningful answers or what we would do with them. Suppose a factor is publicity, can we ban media coverage of the next one?

[oldjudge]

This is an horrific situation and my thoughts go out to the families in this small Connecticut town. What I wonder is what has really changed in our society. Twenty years ago we never heard about this type of thing. Guns weren't any harder to get then. School security was less strict then. Just as many people drank and did drugs. No, I think this is something more basic. Maybe it's the violence in all the video games that kids play starting at such an early age. Maybe it's an overcrowded court system or a more forgiving judicial system which allows people who should be behind bars out on the streets. I don't know the answer --hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

This is an horrific situation and my thoughts go out to the families in this small Connecticut town. What I wonder is what has really changed in our society. Twenty years ago we never heard about this type of thing. Guns weren't any harder to get then. School security was less strict then. Just as many people drank and did drugs. No, I think this is something more basic. Maybe it's the violence in all the video games that kids play starting at such an early age. Maybe it's an overcrowded court system or a more forgiving judicial system which allows people who should be behind bars out on the streets. I don't know the answer --hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.

Jay maybe it's more frequent now but these things have been happening for more than 20 years. For example

In 1949, 28 year old Howard Barton Unruh perpetrated the first single-episode mass murderer in U.S. history killing 13 people. His murderous rampage became known as the “Walk of Death,” and in twelve minutes he killed 13 people and wounded several others using a German made pistol. Howard Barton Unruh was committed to an asylum after being found criminally insane. He died in 2009 due to illness at the age of 88.

- In 1958, Charles Raymond Starkweather and his 14-year-old girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate murdered 11 people in Nebraska and Wyoming by shooting, strangling and stabbing them. Charles Raymond Starkweather received the death penalty for his crimes and was executed at the age of 20 in 1959. His girlfriend Caril Ann Fugate became the youngest female to be tried for first-degree murder and was sentenced to life imprisonment.

[Wymers Auction]

I would ask that everyone says a little prayer for the families of these babies as well as the families of all the other victims. This story has broke the heart of a nation.

[cyseymour]

The biggest problem is that the media gets on the story and starts posting photos of the murderer and talking about his life. Then there are other sick people reading it who want the same attention. They turn murder into a theatrical performance, each time finding a new locale - a movie theater, a mall, a Sikh temple, an elementary school, etc. Just another cruel twist on the same theme, so they can be known as the "guy who did the murder in the _____." Just always finding a new way to shock people.

The media has got to stop publishing the names of the murderers. Otherwise, the whole thing will never end. Anytime they talk about the murderer's life, it is just another advertisement to encourage another shooting. If they stopped calling the murderer by name, you'd see the rate of the shootings decrease, and fast. Stop giving them the spotlight.

[packs]

I don't have answers. I only have questions too. But its obvious that something is driving these actions because not too many other countries have mass murders, especially as frequently as we do. And a lot of these events take place in school settings. Is it the access to guns? Maybe. But what would they be doing without them? Even scarier to think about in a sense. Someone brought up McVee earlier.

There has to be some subversive element to daily life in this country. I think if we discovered what that was we would at least have something to build from. I would prefer that to: what do you expect us to do about it.

[Matthew80]

Here's hoping the freedom of the press and the right to keep and bear arms survives.

And woe to any criminal who comes after my family (or my cards)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree it would be very helpful to understand what brings these things about, and I don't disagree that if there is a rational way we should try, but again, one obvious step seems to be to ban assault weapons and tighten gun control. Of course it isn't a perfect solution, but look how easy it was for the Aurora killer to get weapons. I suspect we will see the same thing here.

It also would be great to completely revamp a culture where violence is romanticized in films and on TV and in music, but that won't happen.

[packs]

I just don't think that taking guns away is a solution. As has been pointed out, guns are no esaier to get today than they've ever been. If anything they're harder to get in general, considering not too long ago you didn't even need a permit and guns and ammo were being sold in department stores. People didn't bring their guns to school in the 60s, 70s, or even the 80s. But they are now. Why is that? What about society has changed? Guns haven't changed. They've always been the same. But now people want to use them. You can take them away. But there will be something else.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I agree it would be very helpful to understand what brings these things about, and I don't disagree that if there is a rational way we should try, but again, one obvious step seems to be to ban assault weapons and tighten gun control. Of course it isn't a perfect solution, but look how easy it was for the Aurora killer to get weapons. I suspect we will see the same thing here.

It also would be great to completely revamp a culture where violence is romanticized in films and on TV and in music, but that won't happen.

We could become like Afghanistan where we ban certain forms of cultural entertainment, or we could become like the rest of the developed world where we could ban assault weapons. Tough call.

[Vintageismygame]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

The biggest problem is that the media gets on the story and starts posting photos of the murderer and talking about his life. Then there are other sick people reading it who want the same attention. They turn murder into a theatrical performance, each time finding a new locale - a movie theater, a mall, a Sikh temple, an elementary school, etc. Just another cruel twist on the same theme, so they can be known as the "guy who did the murder in the _____." Just always finding a new way to shock people.

The media has got to stop publishing the names of the murderers. Otherwise, the whole thing will never end. Anytime they talk about the murderer's life, it is just another advertisement to encourage another shooting. If they stopped calling the murderer by name, you'd see the rate of the shootings decrease, and fast. Stop giving them the spotlight.

I agree 100%

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

Well-said. We're a society that likes to fix symptoms. It's horrible what happened today in Connecticut - perhaps the most horrible thing I've heard about in many years.