O/T feel sick inside - CT Elementary shooting

Runscott · #1 12-14-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xdrx

What we all tell our kids, especially the little ones, about this is critical. Having them fear being shot to death any time they go to school is potentially a real consequence. I know as a kid, 35 years ago, I didn't have any real fears. I can't imagine what that might be like for my 7 year old.

I'd like to be able to tell her that we (either her mom and me, or the collective "we") will be doing something so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. And again and again and again. But I'm afraid that would be a lie, as we don't seem to have the will as a people to do much of anything in that regard.

Sad day.

This is a horrible thing, especially when it's children.

With the recent outbreak of similar events, almost all committed by men in their '20s with a history of mental illness (I'm guessing we'll find the same to be true of this guy), I think it's pretty obvious where a good starting point is. But our country's focus is on 'deterrent' punishment and 'justice', as opposed to prevention, so I expect things will continue as-is.

packs · #2 12-14-2012, 02:28 PM

Terrible day. My sister is having her baby today and all I'm thinking about is what kind of world my nephew is coming into.

kmac32 · #3 12-14-2012, 02:41 PM

What a horrible event. Society needs to start paying attention to prevent these situations. Once again an assault weapon involved. Why do individuale need these type of weapons? We do have the right to bear arms in our country but this should be within reason. Nobody needs an assault weapon for any reason.

wazoo · #4 12-14-2012, 02:55 PM

In a world where violence is admired and enjoyed by younger generations, worry really enters one's mind.

My prayers go out to those who were affected. It is so sad because now there are 26 (possibly more) human beings that can no longer, and never will be able to, contribute this the world anymore.

Touch'EmAll · #5 12-14-2012, 02:59 PM

In tears here in Canby, Oregon. We just had a shooting at one of our shopping malls. Now this. I have a 6 year old in Kindergarten.

Constitution or no Constitution, we did not have this type of thing happening back in the 1770's. The right to bear arms has to change.

Time for a STRICT GUN CONTROL/REGISTRATION/EXAM immediately - mandated by FEDERAL government to override all states. There is NO alternative choice.

Come on Obama, step up to the plate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peter_Spaeth · #6 12-14-2012, 03:08 PM

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

kmac32 · #7 12-14-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

100% agreement on this one

Big Six · #8 12-14-2012, 03:26 PM

Living in Monroe, one town over from Newtown, this was a very scary day. With three kids - one elementary and two in middle school - having their schools put in lockdown, it was comforting to know they were safe but frustrating to know I couldn't go pick them up from the schools. So glad they are home safe and sound...and praying for the parents in Newtown who can't say the same...

Runscott · #9 12-14-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 12-14-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

Scott did I mistake your meaning? Perhaps I misremembered our discussion on the Aurora thread?

Runscott · #11 12-14-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

Peter, in a BETTER world, we'd at least try to identify SOME of them, and try to get them treatment. If not for themselves, which I realize very few people could care less about anyone with mental illness, then for the people they affect through killings like this.

I'm in agreement with you on removing assault weapons. That would force people who want to kill, to choose alternative methods - like Timothy McVee did.

Touch'EmAll · #12 12-14-2012, 04:04 PM

Geklund311 - we have to start somewhere by making it illegal to own "X" type gun. Better to start somewhere than not to start at all and shove our faces in the ground and ignore it.

Change takes time, we need to start somewhere.

I am still trembling with the occasional tear.

ChrisH · #13 12-14-2012, 07:47 PM

Unlike many of you here, I'm not a father. I do have 4 nephews and 1 niece though who are very dear to my heart. I can't imagine what it'd be like to lose them in a place where they are supposed to be safest. In school. Like some of you have said, I never once felt unsafe in school. Its really a sad day when we have to worry about sending kids to school for fear that one of us may get that phone call that a little one we hold near and dear to our hearts will no longer grace us with their presence on this Earth.

Blunder19 · #14 12-14-2012, 03:09 PM

My prayers go out to the victims familys

Yankeefan51 · #15 12-14-2012, 04:25 PM

As a country, we are trained to imagine the unimaginable.

We are so worried about due process and the rights of the sub-humans that
commit horrific crimes, we almost encourage violence.

Our recommendation is the death penalty by hanging or lethal injection for anyone convicted of murder. We should have a national gun ban. And to enforce the law, anyone who sells gun illegally is liable for the consequences.

E Bay should step up to the plate and ban the sale guns and weapons after January 1, 2013.

Drugs are another source of our culture of depravity. We should ban all illegal drugs- federally. Anyone selling drugs should receive a minimum 25 year sentence of hard labor. Anyone using drugs should lose any Federal Aid and lose their scholarship and student loan if if they have one.

We would be far better off if we banned the sale of liquor on college campuses and fined the owners of pubs, restaurants and clubs a minimum of $10,000 each time they sold liquor to a minor.

It is time for America to deal with reality. The only way to stop these crimes
murders, accidents and deaths is making the punishment so severe that it
will force everyone to think twice before breaking the law.

One additional way to enforce the drug and liquor laws is to hire students to turn those who violate the law into the police. For every student convicted
let's reward the student who identified the criminal with $1000 tax free.

Let's do what is Right For America

Bruce

Peter_Spaeth · #16 12-14-2012, 04:28 PM

Bruce, respectfully, paranoid schizophrenics are not going to be deterred by any form of punishment -- indeed today's shooter killed himself.

packs · #17 12-14-2012, 04:29 PM

I disagree for a lot of reasons. But I'll stick to just one. You want anyone convicted of murder put to death. Since the year 2000 over 60 people sentenced to death have been exonerated and had their convictions over turned due to advanced DNA technology. Who knows how many people before the use of DNA were put to death for crimes they didn't commit.

Runscott · #18 12-14-2012, 05:00 PM

........

steve B · #19 12-14-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

As a country, we are trained to imagine the unimaginable.

We are so worried about due process and the rights of the sub-humans that
commit horrific crimes, we almost encourage violence.

Our recommendation is the death penalty by hanging or lethal injection for anyone convicted of murder. We should have a national gun ban. And to enforce the law, anyone who sells gun illegally is liable for the consequences.

E Bay should step up to the plate and ban the sale guns and weapons after January 1, 2013.

Drugs are another source of our culture of depravity. We should ban all illegal drugs- federally. Anyone selling drugs should receive a minimum 25 year sentence of hard labor. Anyone using drugs should lose any Federal Aid and lose their scholarship and student loan if if they have one.

We would be far better off if we banned the sale of liquor on college campuses and fined the owners of pubs, restaurants and clubs a minimum of $10,000 each time they sold liquor to a minor.

It is time for America to deal with reality. The only way to stop these crimes
murders, accidents and deaths is making the punishment so severe that it
will force everyone to think twice before breaking the law.

One additional way to enforce the drug and liquor laws is to hire students to turn those who violate the law into the police. For every student convicted
let's reward the student who identified the criminal with $1000 tax free.

Let's do what is Right For America

Bruce

I used to be for the death penalty, but it really doesn't work as a deterrent, costs more, and as someone else pointed out our system isn't always accurate. I do think it should be available, but used sparingly and only in cases where there's 100% certainty of guilt.

Ebay already disallows the sale of guns. It's been that way since I think 1999?

Illegal drugs are in fact already banned that's why they're illegal.

Mass is already close to that. Fine up to 2000 or/and up to a year in jail. Bars and restauraunts usually get a 3-6 day suspension of license for a first offense which means probably close to that 10K for a busy place. (And yet a person 18 and over can sell or serve alcohol- yes, we're kinda strange here)

Paid informants? Please lets not go down that road.

Steve B

Gecklund311 · #20 12-14-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

In tears here in Canby, Oregon. We just had a shooting at one of our shopping malls. Now this. I have a 6 year old in Kindergarten.

Constitution or no Constitution, we did not have this type of thing happening back in the 1770's. The right to bear arms has to change.

Time for a STRICT GUN CONTROL/REGISTRATION/EXAM immediately - mandated by FEDERAL government to override all states. There is NO alternative choice.

Come on Obama, step up to the plate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be a wonderful solution if we were starting a country from scratch, but we aren't. What do you propose to do with the guns already out there?

Somehow I doubt that the dirtbag gang-bangers that I see walking around Chicago will be lining up to register their guns or take an exam.

Vintageismygame · #21 12-14-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

In tears here in Canby, Oregon. We just had a shooting at one of our shopping malls. Now this. I have a 6 year old in Kindergarten.

Constitution or no Constitution, we did not have this type of thing happening back in the 1770's. The right to bear arms has to change.

Time for a STRICT GUN CONTROL/REGISTRATION/EXAM immediately - mandated by FEDERAL government to override all states. There is NO alternative choice.

Come on Obama, step up to the plate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the government goes as drastic as you say . . . . hang on because the blood will run in the streets.

vintagetoppsguy · #22 12-14-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmac32

What a horrible event. Society needs to start paying attention to prevent these situations. Once again an assault weapon involved. Why do individuale need these type of weapons? We do have the right to bear arms in our country but this should be within reason. Nobody needs an assault weapon for any reason.

Nothing I've read or heard mentioned an assualt weapon being used. Two hand guns were recovered at the scene - a Glock and Sig Sauer, both 9mm. There was a .223 rifle found in the back seat of a car in the parking lot, but it's believed it wasn't used in the shooting. This proves exactly what I said in the Aurora thread - when one wants to kill a mass amount of people, they don't need an assault rifle to do it.

I, too, own a 9mm hand gun. The gun came with 2 clips, I purchased 2 additional clips. Each clip holds 10 rounds. I can discharge all 4 clips (40 rounds) in about a minute. It takes literally 2 seconds to drop the empty clip and replace it with a full clip.

We don't need to focus on the method, but on the motive. What drives some loon to do something like that?

It's a very sad day. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

Vintageismygame · #23 12-14-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmac32

What a horrible event. Society needs to start paying attention to prevent these situations. Once again an assault weapon involved. Why do individuale need these type of weapons? We do have the right to bear arms in our country but this should be within reason. Nobody needs an assault weapon for any reason.

An assault weapon was not used!!!! One was found in his car. He used 2 handguns to commit the evil that he did. Do not demonize assault rifles just because they look "scary". I use mine to go deer, elk, boar hunting. It is one of the best guns that I have ever owned. In fact, I am buying another one tomorrow.

When the government comes knocking on your door you are gonna wish that you owned an AR.

Peter_Spaeth · #24 12-14-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageismygame

When the government comes knocking on your door you are gonna wish that you owned an AR.

What does that mean?

Vintageismygame · #25 12-14-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What does that mean?

Stick around for another few years and you will find out. My father-in-law is ex-CIA and he tells of things that would make you lose sleep for the rest of your life.

Peter_Spaeth · #26 12-14-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageismygame

Stick around for another few years and you will find out. My father-in-law is ex-CIA and he tells of things that would make you lose sleep for the rest of your life.

Oh do tell I love conspiracy theories!! Does this one involve the Illuminati or just Obama?

Runscott · #27 12-14-2012, 06:39 PM

Joshua, Nate, Peter, etc. - these are great posts.

Have a great weekend everyone.

cyseymour · #28 12-14-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageismygame

When the government comes knocking on your door you are gonna wish that you owned an AR.

What if they just send a drone to knock your house out with a missile?

yanks12025 · #29 12-14-2012, 06:57 PM

So for the people saying assault rifles should be banned, say the guy drove his car through a group of kids and killed 15. Should we ban cars?

Also for anyone who thinks video games are part of the problem. I like many others have played violent video games, yet I haven't become a serial killer and killed people and I don't plan on it. So because acouple PEOPLE out of MILLIONS decide to kill others, doesn't mean guns or video games are the problem. If the guy didn't have a gun, he would have found other means to kill people.

Peter_Spaeth · #30 12-14-2012, 06:58 PM

So what's the difference between us and Western Europe where this doesn't seem to happen? If it's not the accessibility or pervasiveness of guns, then what is it?

kmac32 · #31 12-14-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks12025

So for the people saying assault rifles should be banned, say the guy drove his car through a group of kids and killed 15. Should we ban cars?

Also for anyone who thinks video games are part of the problem. I like many others have played violent video games, yet I haven't become a serial killer and killed people and I don't plan on it. So because acouple PEOPLE out of MILLIONS decide to kill others, doesn't mean guns or video games are the problem. If the guy didn't have a gun, he would have found other means to kill people.

I do not think guns in general should be banned. With that said, what is the purpose of having assault guns? These types of guns are so distrunctive that in anyone's hands, they are too much power. When our constitution was written, assault guns did not exist. Second amendment was good for the time but should not apply to assault weapons. No civilian uses these to hunt game or protect their home! They are used strictly for killing. Even if they were used for hunting, there would be the ethical debate of what is sport and what is overkill. They need to be banned as they serve no useful purpose.

Vintageismygame · #32 12-14-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyseymour

What if they just send a drone to knock your house out with a missile?

That is where my Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle comes into play.

mrvster · #33 12-14-2012, 08:36 PM

this is such a tragedy, i don't think we can even digest this yet...the horror of the families going thru right now i can not even imagine

...my prayers are with those souls whose lives were tragically snuffed out.......my heart bleeds for them, and their families.....i am truly saddened.....and surprisingly speechless

Kenny Cole · #34 12-14-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageismygame

An assault weapon was not used!!!! One was found in his car. He used 2 handguns to commit the evil that he did. Do not demonize assault rifles just because they look "scary". I use mine to go deer, elk, boar hunting. It is one of the best guns that I have ever owned. In fact, I am buying another one tomorrow.

When the government comes knocking on your door you are gonna wish that you owned an AR.

That's bullshit. If you can't hunt without using an assault rifle, you aren't much of a hunter or sportsman. I suppose you also need an extra large clip in case someone tries to break into your house, right? Maybe the 28th shot is the one that gets it done? Spare me.

Vintageismygame · #35 12-14-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

That's bullshit. If you can't hunt without using an assault rifle, you aren't much of a hunter or sportsman. I suppose you also need an extra large clip in case someone tries to break into your house, right? Maybe the 28th shot is the one that gets it done? Spare me.

Have you ever shot a bear and the first shot not take him down. Or how about a boar charging at you with it's tusks raised? Just stick to your arm chair hunting.

Kenny Cole · #36 12-14-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintageismygame

Have you ever shot a bear and the first shot not take him down. Or how about a boar charging at you with it's tusks raised? Just stick to your arm chair hunting.

Lol, I hunt pretrty frequently. What you're saying is you can't shoot, are a pussy, and need the extra firepower to make sure you don't get hurt. That is truly sporting. I can see why you need an assault weapon. Maybe you should try a bazooka. Think that will get it done?

Kenny Cole · #37 12-14-2012, 02:56 PM

Every time one of these horrific events occurs, I wonder how much the sensationalization of the last horrific event contributed to the occurrence of the current one. I suspect when the shooter's house is searched, they will find that the shooter read up on, studied, and attempted to learn from, Columbine and the many other mass tragedies that have occurred since then. IMO, with respect to things like this, lots of press coverage and easy access to information via the internet is like a cookbook for psychopaths.

As many others have said, this type of thing is just unfathomable to me. I simply don't understand what could possibly cause a young man to become so disturbed or so filled with hate that he would kill his own mother and young children he probably didn't even know simply because (I presume) they were in the same room with her. My prayers go out to the families of all those affected by this senseless tragedy and, like many others, I will go home, hug my 11 y/o, and give thanks for all the blessings in my life for a long time tonight.

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