Got burnt today

[Wymers Auction]

I can tell you from experience that "believed to not be authentic" is not a normal disclaimer as I have never experienced this on any auction contract. That is a crooked way to do business pure and simple. Let me ask another question if you believe they sell fake autos then why would they not also sell fake pottery, art, marbles, and anything else? They are all of the sudden crooked only when selling autos and baseball cards?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

I can tell you from experience that "believed to not be authentic" is not a normal disclaimer as I have never experienced this on any auction contract. That is a crooked way to do business pure and simple. Let me ask another question if you believe they sell fake autos then why would they not also sell fake pottery, art, marbles, and anything else? They are all of the sudden crooked only when selling autos and baseball cards?

Bingo ! a glass of urine with a "spalsh" of water ! Why even play that game ...use this analogy there is a restaurant where you live. They offer
1) Obnoxious waiters
2) Rude management
3) They have a sign posted outside that says "Our food is so bad we don't eat it"
4) The chef is combative and has a reputation for spitting in any dish sent back to the kitchen before he sends it back to your table
5) The menu says OUR FOOD WILL PROBABLY MAKE YOU SICK
6) The Guinness book of Worlds Records lists the establishment as the home of the WORLDS biggest cockroach

If the food was FREE would you eat there ?
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

They are all of the sudden crooked only when selling autos and baseball cards?

Not sure if that was directed at me or not .... but to answer your question ... no. IMO they are crooked for misleading potential bidders by falsely describing the lots they have for sale. It wouldn't matter to me if it were a reprint card, a fake autograph, or a stinky bag of cat poop that was advertised as "scent free". I personally haven't dealt with that particular auction enough to safely accuse them of anything besides the cards. My friend's new furnace wasn't fake. As a matter of fact, he brought it home, hooked it up the same day, and is very pleased with his purchase. I am sure they have sold thousands of lots and have thousands of happy bidders, but the facts are still there, and now I know that at least 2 of us have brought to their attention the fact that they are peddling fake/reprinted sports related items.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

Not sure if that was directed at me or not .... but to answer your question ... no. IMO they are crooked for misleading potential bidders by falsely describing the lots they have for sale. It wouldn't matter to me if it were a reprint card, a fake autograph, or a stinky bag of cat poop that was advertised as "scent free". I personally haven't dealt with that particular auction enough to safely accuse them of anything besides the cards. My friend's new furnace wasn't fake. As a matter of fact, he brought it home, hooked it up the same day, and is very pleased with his purchase. I am sure they have sold thousands of lots and have thousands of happy bidders, but the facts are still there, and now I know that at least 2 of us have brought to their attention the fact that they are peddling fake/reprinted sports related items.

Steve not really directing this at you specifically. The facts were that you saw a reprint listed as an original and the original post stated that they sold many fakes. Therefore I concluded that they run a crooked business as the original post talks like they have a history of selling those items. I do not believe that any auction house sells fakes over and over and still does not know there is a problem. There are way too many bidders out there that are knowledgeable enough to identify these items and will be sure to let you know.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Steve not really directing this at you specifically. The facts were that you saw a reprint listed as an original and the original post stated that they sold many fakes. Therefore I concluded that they run a crooked business as the original post talks like they have a history of selling those items. I do not believe that any auction house sells fakes over and over and still does not know there is a problem. There are way too many bidders out there that are knowledgeable enough to identify these items and will be sure to let you know.

More importantly, as you pointed out earlier James, NOBODY puts a disclaimer like that on every listing without knowing there is a problem. That's ridiculous, and assures that you will ONLY have fraudulent material consigned in the future, as nobody with legit material will subject it to that kind of selling environment unless they are just completely unaware (as in, grandpa's estate had a lot of antiques and happened to include a few sports-related items that came along in the truck to the auction house drop-off).

[Paulanthony]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

I can tell you from experience that "believed to not be authentic" is not a normal disclaimer as I have never experienced this on any auction contract. That is a crooked way to do business pure and simple. Let me ask another question if you believe they sell fake autos then why would they not also sell fake pottery, art, marbles, and anything else? They are all of the sudden crooked only when selling autos and baseball cards?

In reality, I don't believe any disclaimer can be defined as normal.
A disclaimer is a statement and has one purpose. A refusal to accept responsibility of legal liability .

I would be very interested in looking at one of there Consignor Contracts. All reliable, or respectable Auction Contracts should include the following listed in the contract.
I certify that I am the legal owner of any goods, merchandise and/or property consigned & have good title & the right to sell them. I guarantee that I have not misrepresented any item(s) consigned or commissioned including items listed above. I agree to return any & all money(s) received for items I have misrepresented, even if unknowingly, IMMEDIATELY, if requested to do so. I understand that I will be held legally responsible if I misrepresent item(s) consigned, even unknowingly.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Paulanthony

In reality, I don't believe any disclaimer can be defined as normal.
A disclaimer is a statement and has one purpose. A refusal to accept responsibility of legal liability.

You want to talk about disclaimers... what do you guys think about this one?



"Ticket holders acknowledge and agree that the Yankees' ban on foul/abusive language and obscene/indecent clothing does not violate their right to free speech . . . In addition, ticket holders further acknowledge and agree that by entering Yankee Stadium, they . . . waive, to the fullest extent that they may legally and effectively do so, any objection they may now or hereafter have to such ban and the penalties that the Yankees may impose for any violation of the same."

I have no objection to the Yankees' desire to forbid foul or abusive language and obscene or indecent clothing at their games... but I do object to their making it into a free speech issue. What's wrong with just saying that foul language and obscene clothing will not be tolerated, and leave it at that?

Why do they have to make it a free speech issue?

(Scan from Yankees Magazine, an official publication of the New York Yankees.)

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

You want to talk about disclaimers... what do you guys think about this one?



"Ticket holders acknowledge and agree that the Yankees' ban on foul/abusive language and obscene/indecent clothing does not violate their right to free speech . . . In addition, ticket holders further acknowledge and agree that by entering Yankee Stadium, they . . . waive, to the fullest extent that they may legally and effectively do so, any objection they may now or hereafter have to such ban and the penalties that the Yankees may impose for any violation of the same."

I have no objection to the Yankees' desire to forbid foul or abusive language and obscene or indecent clothing at their games... but I do object to their making it into a free speech issue. What's wrong with just saying that foul language and obscene clothing will not be tolerated, and leave it at that?

Why do they have to make it a free speech issue?

(Scan from Yankees Magazine, an official publication of the New York Yankees.)

Because the bulk of the country is uneducated, and New Yorkers are predisposed to argue. So they figured "Why not take the first idiotic argument out of the equation?"

[Exhibitman]

No, it is because of a series of court rulings on free speech that grant certain speech and assembly rights in public spaces, like malls or the walks in front of grocery stores. The purpose of the waiver [it is not an exculpatory clause disclaiming liability but a contract clause waiving a right, so it is a waiver not a disclaimer] is to preclude a 1st Amendment argument that the stadium is a similar public space in which certain Constitutional rights might exist.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No, it is because of a series of court rulings on free speech that grant certain speech and assembly rights in public spaces, like malls or the walks in front of grocery stores. The purpose of the waiver [it is not an exculpatory clause disclaiming liability but a contract clause waiving a right, so it is a waiver not a disclaimer] is to preclude a 1st Amendment argument that the stadium is a similar public space in which certain Constitutional rights might exist.

That's what I said.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Deertick

That's what I said.

Adam makes me all warm and fuzzy with that lawyer-talk. Man, I wish I could do that AND make sense at the same time. It'll never happen. I would be revising my post for 3 days before I hit the respond button AND would still screw it up.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No, it is because of a series of court rulings on free speech that grant certain speech and assembly rights in public spaces, like malls or the walks in front of grocery stores. The purpose of the waiver [it is not an exculpatory clause disclaiming liability but a contract clause waiving a right, so it is a waiver not a disclaimer] is to preclude a 1st Amendment argument that the stadium is a similar public space in which certain Constitutional rights might exist.

That's almost the first thing I thought. My first thought was that the Yankees had been on the losing end of one of those decisions.

A friend of mine who works for a big firm as a librarian told me to consider that every time I saw a caution on a power tool or some other bit of equipment it meant that someone somewhere was dumb enough to actually do that and lived to sue and win. He's sent me links to info about some of the cases and I'm just amazed the stuff people actually have to be warned against. (Don't use the lawnmower as a hedge trimmer I think that's my favorite)

Steve B

[JimStinson]

I get that about the lawnmower makes sense ...but is it OK to use a hedgetrimmer for a haircut ???
___________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

(Don't use the lawnmower as a hedge trimmer I think that's my favorite)

Steve B

Like most everyone, I mowed lawns as a teenager. I once showed up at this woman's house and she wanted me to edge her lawn. So she gave me a weed-eater to do it with. It was a disaster and I ruined the tool. I'm glad she didn't have any other power-tools - I might have killed myself.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Deertick

and New Yorkers are predisposed to argue...

No we're NOT!!