Willie Mays TTM Question

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I have posted this Mays before as I received this as a TTM in the late 70's. It is generally accepted thatthis is a spouse signature although I have seen a few in a JSA slab stating otherwise.

Hey Andrew,
That's precisely my point. It is 'generally accepted' to be a spouse signature while other people say Willie signed it himself. I still never see any sort of evidence that points to Mrs. Mays signing for him, not even a single statement such as, "Willie said in a 1978 interview that his wife signs all autograph requests received through the mail." Nothing. Nada.

Yet the same people state over and over again **as fact** that it's the case. It seems to have the same level of validity that any urban legend has.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Hey Andrew,
That's precisely my point. It is 'generally accepted' to be a spouse signature while other people say Willie signed it himself. I still never see any sort of evidence that points to Mrs. Mays signing for him, not even a single statement such as, "Willie said in a 1978 interview that his wife signs all autograph requests received through the mail." Nothing. Nada.

Yet the same people state over and over again **as fact** that it's the case. It seems to have the same level of validity that any urban legend has.

I understand your point of not having a 'smoking gun' that establishes the contention as fact. One may exisit, as some of the longtime dealers here have yet to weigh in.

However, I cannot recall that I have ever seen that signature reputably attributed to Willie. Especially in a sharpie. He did have a more 'traditional' autograph early on in his career, though not as flamboyant as above. I have often seen the above described as a non-malicious forgery (secretarial, clubhouse, wife, agent, etc). Slabbed or not, real is real, forged is forged.

My methodology? I examine against known good, and stay away from variations if at all possible. MANY players vary WAY too much for me to be comfortable identifying on my own. That's when I put my trust in smarter people.

[Scott Garner]

Has anyone ever seen the version of the TTM Willie Mays sig on a legit Giants team ball? Personally, I have not.
I would suggest that perhaps this is your "smoking gun" that you are looking for, FWIW.

Food for thought....

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Has anyone ever seen the version of the TTM Willie Mays sig on a legit Giants team ball? Personally, I have not.
I would suggest that perhaps this is your "smoking gun" that you are looking for, FWIW.

Food for thought....

This ball is a 1956 Giants ball signed by the team. It's not mine, so I don't know if it was signed in that year or over a long period of time. Willie's signature looks very much (in style and execution) like all the TTM's that people love to say were signed by his wife. If he signed this ball himself, then I would absolutely say he signed my TTM cards while Mrs. Mays was baking cookies.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

This ball is a 1956 Giants ball signed by the team. It's not mine, so I don't know if it was signed in that year or over a long period of time. Willie's signature looks very much (in style and execution) like all the TTM's that people love to say were signed by his wife. If he signed this ball himself, then I would absolutely say he signed my TTM cards while Mrs. Mays was baking cookies.

Interesting...

[scmavl]

I noticed a similar auto on Willie's '67 Topps card but no one weighed in on it... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=159281

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by scmavl

I noticed a similar auto on Willie's '67 Topps card but no one weighed in on it... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=159281

Interesting

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Hey Andrew,
That's precisely my point. It is 'generally accepted' to be a spouse signature while other people say Willie signed it himself. I still never see any sort of evidence that points to Mrs. Mays signing for him, not even a single statement such as, "Willie said in a 1978 interview that his wife signs all autograph requests received through the mail." Nothing. Nada.

Yet the same people state over and over again **as fact** that it's the case. It seems to have the same level of validity that any urban legend has.

For what its worth on the TTM Mays I don;t know if his wife signed em, His neighbor or the mail man, but he didn't. Mays requests in the 1980's usually came back really fast , so we mailed requests knowing he was on the road , and bingo they came right back. So maybe he took a red eye flight home to sign his mail because he loved his fans so much or maybe someone else was signing for him.

We did the same with O.J. Simpson who always SWORE in interviews he signed all his fan mail and well....he didn't, Unless he could be in two places at at the same time very quickly........mmmm, maybe !!!
Also Sonny Liston's wife who for a FACT signed TTM for him insisted her entire life that she never signed for him.
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

Also I have nothing but ultimate respect for Willie Mays and still consider him to be quite possibly the greatest baseball player who ever lived..... But back in the days when I used to set up at card shows and usually be right next to the signing guest who often happened to be Willie Mays , he ABSOLUTELY detested sitting there and signing autographs and he was being paid for it.

He rarely if ever even looked up and could not wait to leave. So its almost impossible to imagine this same person sitting down at home IN HIS SPARE TIME FOR FREE and signing a MOUNTAIN of fan mail every day. Its just not realistic.
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Unless he could be in two places at at the same time very quickly........mmmm, maybe !!!

Wait, so OJ wasn't being entirely honest??? That would explain a lot!

Originally Posted by JimStinson

He rarely if ever even looked up and could not wait to leave. So its almost impossible to imagine this same person sitting down at home IN HIS SPARE TIME FOR FREE and signing a MOUNTAIN of fan mail every day. Its just not realistic.

+1.

[JimStinson]

I thought it was a little wierd when ...after the trial OJ promised at the interview he would find the REAL killer and then had all the mirrors removed from his home

To this day when a waitress asks me if I want OJ with my breakfast I automatically shout GUILTY !!!!!

But the funniest part is he finally went to jail for trying to take back OJ Simpson memorabilia which by the best calcuations I can figure I could not give away for FREE.....What a country !
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

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