Mike Marshall signing

[jgmp123]

I guess I am unfamiliar with his story...why is he so hesitant to sign? Any specific reasons or just doesn't want to be bothered?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I guess I am unfamiliar with his story...why is he so hesitant to sign? Any specific reasons or just doesn't want to be bothered?

According to Marshall autograph collecting is a miss directed form of "hero worship" he believes that athletes are not heros and that instead the REAL heros should be teachers, parents etc. ,

Its probably a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it. This goes all the way back to his playing days. In his defense he was always very nice to kids and fans and his refusals to sign were always polite in contrast to Thurman Munson (and others) who would shout expletives, shove kids to the ground, throw their baseball cards in the mud etc. depending on his mood.
At least Marshall was consistent...
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

That reminded me of an amusing thing that happened when Bill and I met with him. Someone had sent in an 8x10 color photo to be signed of Mike Marshall , a man and his son and others all seated at a picnic bench having lunch.
Marshall looked at it and smiled , I asked him about it and he said it was his friends family and was taken at a bar-b-q they had about a year prior. His friend had asked him numerous times to sign it for him and he wouldn't.
His words were "I guess I HAVE to sign it now"

Tom H. a member of this board has a couple amusing Mike Marshall stories of his own but I'll let him tell them if he wants to...
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[jgmp123]

Thanks Jim...I still think it sounds so outlandish to think that. Hero worship.maybe, but the guys has got to understand what that autograph would mean to a kid.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Thanks Jim...I still think it sounds so outlandish to think that. Hero worship.maybe, but the guys has got to understand what that autograph would mean to a kid.

I can't even begin to try and guess his philosophy regarding autographs, My point was that in all of the interaction I ever saw him have with kids and fans in general he was pleasant , would shake hands and often even pose for pictures. And talk baseball. Compared to many horror stories from my youth in which the player would not only refuse to sign but would go out of their way to be insulting, Leon Wagner, Jerry Grote, Thurman Munson, George Foster etc.

From my personal experiences at Yankee Stadium we were kids the Yankees were awful, Late 60's no one was in the stands and Mickey Mantle was taking fielding practice at 1st base he was our idol and we yelled our lungs out just to have "The Mick" turn in our direction and "WAVE" would have been nice but he went out of his way to ignore us and even poked fun at us with the other players.
____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HexsHeroes]

.

. . . considering the number of collectors who consider Munson one of the "great" Yankee catchers, and who are willing to pay several hundreds of dollars for a Munson signed item (to be a treasured part of their collection). I know of afew collectors who fit this mold. And I realize that a good part of the demand is from the very limited number of autographs he signed over the years, and that certainly influences the higher prices for authentic Munson signed items. But it still sounds alittle like misplaced hero-worship to me; wanting and valuing a signed items from someone who treated the fans poorly, on more than the rare occasion.

[drc]

Reading his bio, Marshall was not your normal baseball guy. He got a Ph.d. from Michigan State while he was still playing in the bigs and went on to teach at several colleges.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

.

. . . considering the number of collectors who consider Munson one of the "great" Yankee catchers, and who are willing to pay several hundreds of dollars for a Munson signed item (to be a treasured part of their collection). I know of afew collectors who fit this mold. And I realize that a good part of the demand is from the very limited number of autographs he signed over the years, and that certainly influences the higher prices for authentic Munson signed items. But it still sounds alittle like misplaced hero-worship to me; wanting and valuing a signed items from someone who treated the fans poorly, on more than the rare occasion.

I think it could also due with "Completion". I know I would only want a Munson if it pertained to a certain collection I was trying to build....

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

.

. . . considering the number of collectors who consider Munson one of the "great" Yankee catchers, and who are willing to pay several hundreds of dollars for a Munson signed item (to be a treasured part of their collection). I know of afew collectors who fit this mold. And I realize that a good part of the demand is from the very limited number of autographs he signed over the years, and that certainly influences the higher prices for authentic Munson signed items. But it still sounds alittle like misplaced hero-worship to me; wanting and valuing a signed items from someone who treated the fans poorly, on more than the rare occasion.

I didn't mean to degrade Thurman Munson in any way , in fact ON THE FIELD he played his heart out ! A true competitor ! He owed the fans that and he DELIVERED ! How he or any other athlete interacts with fans off the field is their choice. Some are A joy to meet , some are "quirky" and some are downright SOB's...., I prefer either of the first two over the latter.
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[byrone]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

According to Marshall autograph collecting is a miss directed form of "hero worship" he believes that athletes are not heros and that instead the REAL heros should be teachers, parents etc. ,

Its probably a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it. This goes all the way back to his playing days. In his defense he was always very nice to kids and fans and his refusals to sign were always polite in contrast to Thurman Munson (and others) who would shout expletives, shove kids to the ground, throw their baseball cards in the mud etc. depending on his mood.
At least Marshall was consistent...
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

That's too bad about Munson. A little kindness and politeness goes a long way.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I guess I am unfamiliar with his story...why is he so hesitant to sign? Any specific reasons or just doesn't want to be bothered?

he wants to be different because it makes him feel special. its an ego stroke in a weird sort of a way. he enjoys being the martyr. if he signed a lot people would generally forget about him, so he refuses to sign. its his way of being remembered, even if it is for not signing. I think he secretly enjoys people asking him so he can say no. it's a display of power. Muhammad Ali is the opposite, he loved the fans and signed all day. My opinion.

[cubsfan-budman]

If someone doesn't sign because of principles but then WILL sign when a bunch of money is involved, I think that person is a hypocrite.

Either sign or don't. Or even only sign when a lot of money is involved. But don't say you're against signing because it feels like hero worship then only sign for people when they pay you $220.

Gross.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

If someone doesn't sign because of principles but then WILL sign when a bunch of money is involved, I think that person is a hypocrite.

Either sign or don't. Or even only sign when a lot of money is involved. But don't say you're against signing because it feels like hero worship then only sign for people when they pay you $220.

Gross.

+1. I don't have a problem with athletes refusing to sign (I don't necessarily GET it sometimes, but that's different) but don't say you don't sign because of some weird moral high ground and then waiver when a large sum of money is thrown in your face. I understand the check Bill stroked to Marshall for the first signing would have made a nice down payment on a new house.

[stewbacca]

I am an autographed set collector and need Marshall for 2 different sets(1969 and 1976 topps) and see these prices and getting down to $150 is starting to look like a bargain for me. Here is an old article from SI about him and I think it is a good read.


http://www.drmikemarshall.com/1974_A...lustrated.html

[dgo71]

I once heard that the reason Marshall's later issue cards are all action shots (the last 8-10 years or so, not sure exactly) is because Marshall had even gone so far as to start refusing to pose for the Topps photographers.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by dgo71

+1. I don't have a problem with athletes refusing to sign (I don't necessarily GET it sometimes, but that's different) but don't say you don't sign because of some weird moral high ground and then waiver when a large sum of money is thrown in your face. I understand the check Bill stroked to Marshall for the first signing would have made a nice down payment on a new house.

My understanding that he used the money to expand his facility and use it for his center. Which he holds as paramount, his mission. I don't see a major moral ambiguity. I'm pretty sure he can give a whit about his autograph value.

Jim, any recollection what his fee was? How many items signed? In other words, if he took his time and signed 100 /hr, did you guys break even?

When I played against him (almost 20 years ago) in a men's league, he would only pitch, never bat. He would write down every pitch (or sequence) at the end of an inning in a notebook. No one ever talked to him during the game. If you got a hit, he was annoyed. He seemed to approach the game as a puzzle that needed to be solved. Most times he left as soon as he was finished pitching for the game. If he stayed, he would discuss the game, at bats you had, and general theory. But if anyone asked about or mentioned his MLB career he would brush it off (Yeah, those were the days") If someone didn't get it and pressed on....icy stare or blank silence.

Something I'll never forget: One of my younger teamates hit a homerun off of him. We convinced him to ask for Mike to autograph it. He just looked over at us, gave a disgusted look, and simply said. "Not today".We were laughing so hard it hurt. I must say he was never rude, just businesslike.

*Just read that SI article. WOW. 20 years before my story. 40 years of consistency in philosophy.

[dgo71]

I don't think Marshall cares about the value of his signature either, but what he used the money for doesn't change the fact that he did indeed sell out on his core values. His stance was always that signing autographs (or any fan interaction for that matter) perpetuated what he saw as social "shortcomings."

Marshall relented on his self-imposed policy for a price, and to imply that it's OK because the money went to a good cause negates the hypocrisy of his actions. At the end of the day, he had a price and that price was enough to get him to do something that he clearly looked at as trivial and wrong.

I'm not claiming to even begin to know what goes on in the mind of someone as cerebral as Marshall, but I see his actions as hypocritical and at the end of the day it's just my opinion of what he did. IMO, if he wanted money to pour into his facility, I'm sure there are other ways that a man of his obvious intelligence could have gone about getting it.

EDIT:
All that said, I LOL'd a few times reading this. You have to kinda smile at his blatant deflection of questions he had no interest in.

http://twinstrivia.com/interview-arc...mike-marshall/

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I don't think Marshall cares about the value of his signature either, but what he used the money for doesn't change the fact that he did indeed sell out on his core values. His stance was always that signing autographs (or any fan interaction for that matter) perpetuated what he saw as social "shortcomings."

Marshall relented on his self-imposed policy for a price, and to imply that it's OK because the money went to a good cause negates the hypocrisy of his actions. At the end of the day, he had a price and that price was enough to get him to do something that he clearly looked at as trivial and wrong.

I'm not claiming to even begin to know what goes on in the mind of someone as cerebral as Marshall, but I see his actions as hypocritical and at the end of the day it's just my opinion of what he did. IMO, if he wanted money to pour into his facility, I'm sure there are other ways that a man of his obvious intelligence could have gone about getting it.

of course its hypocritical, he lectured people on their misguidance in asking a ballplayer for his autograph, chided them. then he takes the money and signs.

but it is what it is. bill russel didnt sign until he saw his friends make a boatload of money. others wont sign for various reasons. try getting a alfredo evangelista boxing autograph. it takes years if you can pry one from him at all. but ali signed all day in the streets for free.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I don't think Marshall cares about the value of his signature either, but what he used the money for doesn't change the fact that he did indeed sell out on his core values. His stance was always that signing autographs (or any fan interaction for that matter) perpetuated what he saw as social "shortcomings."

Marshall relented on his self-imposed policy for a price, and to imply that it's OK because the money went to a good cause negates the hypocrisy of his actions. At the end of the day, he had a price and that price was enough to get him to do something that he clearly looked at as trivial and wrong.

I'm not claiming to even begin to know what goes on in the mind of someone as cerebral as Marshall, but I see his actions as hypocritical and at the end of the day it's just my opinion of what he did. IMO, if he wanted money to pour into his facility, I'm sure there are other ways that a man of his obvious intelligence could have gone about getting it.

EDIT:
All that said, I LOL'd a few times reading this. You have to kinda smile at his blatant deflection of questions he had no interest in.

http://twinstrivia.com/interview-arc...mike-marshall/

Another fun read! I only met the man a few times, and only spoke to him briefly. I was facinated then watching a Cy Young pitcher playing in a local over-40 league (against my over-30 team) and am still facinated. His dispassion for the game is clear, as is his obsession with it.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by dgo71

I don't think Marshall cares about the value of his signature either, but what he used the money for doesn't change the fact that he did indeed sell out on his core values. His stance was always that signing autographs (or any fan interaction for that matter) perpetuated what he saw as social "shortcomings."

Marshall relented on his self-imposed policy for a price, and to imply that it's OK because the money went to a good cause negates the hypocrisy of his actions. At the end of the day, he had a price and that price was enough to get him to do something that he clearly looked at as trivial and wrong.

I'm not claiming to even begin to know what goes on in the mind of someone as cerebral as Marshall, but I see his actions as hypocritical and at the end of the day it's just my opinion of what he did. IMO, if he wanted money to pour into his facility, I'm sure there are other ways that a man of his obvious intelligence could have gone about getting it.

EDIT:
All that said, I LOL'd a few times reading this. You have to kinda smile at his blatant deflection of questions he had no interest in.

http://twinstrivia.com/interview-arc...mike-marshall/

THAT is one awesome interview!! Dr. Mike is a trip...

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by travrosty

he wants to be different because it makes him feel special. its an ego stroke in a weird sort of a way. he enjoys being the martyr. if he signed a lot people would generally forget about him, so he refuses to sign. its his way of being remembered, even if it is for not signing. I think he secretly enjoys people asking him so he can say no. it's a display of power. Muhammad Ali is the opposite, he loved the fans and signed all day. My opinion.

I love that ! To have the ability to READS PEOPLES MINDS It would come in especially handle with the girls at the CLUBS , I have a selfish motive but would like you to teach me how it works ......Have money will travel

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by travrosty

he wants to be different because it makes him feel special. its an ego stroke in a weird sort of a way. he enjoys being the martyr. if he signed a lot people would generally forget about him, so he refuses to sign. its his way of being remembered, even if it is for not signing. I think he secretly enjoys people asking him so he can say no. it's a display of power. Muhammad Ali is the opposite, he loved the fans and signed all day. My opinion.

That is idiotic.