1905 Pirates - need i.d. help

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, I'm very happy. And I agree - John is amazing with his Pirates research, as are you with your i.d. skills. I'm good at wasting money!

Also Rhett and Don.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

Also Rhett and Don.

Yes, thanks Rhett and Don. It's great having so many resources here to go to for such things. Hope to be able to return the favor at some point.

[Scott Garner]

Mark and Scott,
Not meaning to muddy the waters on Unknown # 2, but I believe that another candidate for this gent would be AP "Lefty" Leifield.

Here is a signed vintage newspaper cut of Lefty who was absolutely a member of this 1905 Pirates team. Lefty Leifield threw an unofficial no-hitter that was called after 6 innings (ran out of daylight?) in 1906. Lefty is listed at 6'1" and 175 lbs., which is very much the build that Unknown mystery man # 2 has.

What do you both think about this comparison?

Thanks!

[z28jd]

Leifield joined the team in September. Wouldn't be on the same team photo as McBride

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Leifield joined the team in September. Wouldn't be on the same team photo as McBride

Very good! Thanks for the clarification.

[Runscott]

Scott - thanks for looking and giving your thoughts.

A couple of the i.d.'s hinge upon me being correct concerning the McBride i.d.

Yes, I am 'certain', but I've been 'certain' and incorrect before, so if anyone disagrees on that one, please let me know.

[z28jd]

Not only does the pic of McBride look like a dead ringer, but if he wasn't in the picture, George Gibson would be. I don't see anyone that looks like Gibson at all. Their time with the team overlapped by three days, so without Gibson the date of June 30th or prior is certain.

The only two players that joined the Pirates before Gibson did, besides the 21 mentioned in the pic, were Frank Moore, who was there for a very brief time in mid-June, and Harry Smith, who was there before Moore and his time was just as brief, but it didn't overlap Moore. Smith could also be in the pic if it was taken before March 20th.


With Gibson in the pic, it would be post June 30th and then you would have a new range of possibilities as well (Leifield, Ganley, Knabe, Kinsella, Flanagan, Brain and Wallace) depending on the date.

To me, it looks like you can pinpoint the date range from March 21- April 10 based on the fact the Pirates had all 21 of those players together in camp for that entire period. The pic was likely taken in Hot Springs, Ark. area, though Louisville is a small possibility as the team traveled there on the way to their season opener in Cincinnati but Clarence Holmes was released to the minors right after they got there. Goodwin went to his minor league club days later and Lindaman lost out the last roster spot to Chick Robitaille on Opening Day. Not that they had roster limits as strict as today, Barney Dreyfuss said in early spring that he would carry between 17 and 19 players and they ended up with 18, not needing seven pitchers. Homer Hillebrand was their emergency pitcher/catcher