Ron Keurajian's new book

[JimStinson]

My two cents...When Ron was working on the book he asked me and I told him at that time there were what I believed to be two genuine examples of Addie Joss signature. There is some variation in both.

The one example he used in the book. The other example which was obtained from Joss widow he did not as he was not confident enough in it to use it , so he didn't.

Since then a postcard written by Addie and addressed to his son surfaced (I think its mentioned in this thread) and it matches exactly The example I have that originated from the wife which was not in the book. I believe all three are genuine. Two are in private collections and I have no idea where the other one ended up as I never saw the original only a copy.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

My two cents...When Ron was working on the book he asked me and I told him at that time there were what I believed to be two genuine examples of Addie Joss signature. There is some variation in both.

The one example he used in the book. The other example which was obtained from Joss widow he did not as he was not confident enough in it to use it , so he didn't.

Since then a postcard written by Addie and addressed to his son surfaced (I think its mentioned in this thread) and it matches exactly The example I have that originated from the wife which was not in the book. I believe all three are genuine. Two are in private collections and I have no idea where the other one ended up as I never saw the original only a copy.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Well with 3 separate examples, and if you believe each to be authentic, I think we (I mean you or Ron, since you have seen all 3) can safely "authenticate" any examples separate than these three that surface in the hobby. The price 1 of those 3 will command when they eventually go to auction, whew.

[JimStinson]

Well ....Yes and No, He and I mildly disagree at present as to the authenticity of all three of what I would consider "knowns"...legit signatures of Joss. The example I cite from the widow might not even exist anymore as it appears to be an old style xerox , so she might have just sent out the copy and not the original. Or maybe only had a copy herself.

Then you add the intangibles of the signature variations , and rarity which would (I hope) make anyone who trys to authenticate an Addie Joss signature be looking at more than just "slant, formation, pen pressure etc etc, blah blah" and be instead looking for ROCK SOLID provenance and the ability to back track what? Almost 100 years to practically "put the pen in his hand" Anything less would be negligent considering what his signature would sell for either via auction or outright sale.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[insidethewrapper]

Can someone post or email me a Dan Brouthers auto from the book ? thanks Mike

[JimStinson]

Phone numbers are
1-800-HELP-NOW
1-800-435-7669
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

please keep in mind that is the job of any forger to make the signatures MATCH , its easy to do , for a good authenticator the signature itself (in most cases) is the LAST thing he looks at

[markf31]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Can someone post or email me a Dan Brouthers auto from the book ? thanks Mike

Why don’t you support Ron for all the hard work he put into the project and buy the book, rather than asking for someone to send you a scan from a book they themselves invested in and purchased. I highly recommend you just purchase the book. It’s an extremely valuable reference and tool for a collector, and easily worth the $49.95 from Amazon. IMO it’s one thing to ask for the opinions from board members or ask to see examples from their collection even, but it’s another to ask someone who purchased the book to help you out just so you don’t have to make the same investment.

[isaac2004]

Are there other books like this out on the market, with more examples maybe?

[tazdmb]

Sports Collectors Digest had a similar book out about 15? years ago. I thought it was pretty good, but based on Ron's book-the author still got duped on some toughies, like Rube. Here is the amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Autog.../dp/0873411692

[michael3322]

Jim,

This is all quite interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights. I just want to make sure that I understand what you are saying:

There are 3 examples of Joss' signature:

1) The one used in Ron's new book from Nap Lajoie's autograph album

2) The postcard recently auctioned at Old Judge and authenticated by Kevin Keating. Lew Lipset sent me the COA, which I posted on Net54 on this thread.

3) A third for which you have seen a photocopy of a legal document reported to have been obtained from his widow with writing that appears to match the other two.

Did I get that right?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Well ....Yes and No, He and I mildly disagree at present as to the authenticity of all three of what I would consider "knowns"...legit signatures of Joss. The example I cite from the widow might not even exist anymore as it appears to be an old style xerox , so she might have just sent out the copy and not the original. Or maybe only had a copy herself.

Then you add the intangibles of the signature variations , and rarity which would (I hope) make anyone who trys to authenticate an Addie Joss signature be looking at more than just "slant, formation, pen pressure etc etc, blah blah" and be instead looking for ROCK SOLID provenance and the ability to back track what? Almost 100 years to practically "put the pen in his hand" Anything less would be negligent considering what his signature would sell for either via auction or outright sale.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by michael3322

Jim,

This is all quite interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights. I just want to make sure that I understand what you are saying:

There are 3 examples of Joss' signature:

1) The one used in Ron's new book from Nap Lajoie's autograph album

2) The postcard recently auctioned at Old Judge and authenticated by Kevin Keating. Lew Lipset sent me the COA, which I posted on Net54 on this thread.

3) A third for which you have seen a photocopy of a legal document reported to have been obtained from his widow with writing that appears to match the other two.

Did I get that right?

Thanks.

Correct (Kinda), The postcard authenticated by Kevin Keating matches exactly the sample from the legal document obtained from the widow. I believe both are genuine known examples. Both of those are slightly different from the example in Ron K's book (the one from the Lajoie album) which I also believe is authentic. Although carries some variation from the first two mentioned above.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

Also for clarification I don't think Kevin was authenticating or the auction was representing the notation at the top of the postcard (Joss, Adrian left standing) which likely is in a seperate hand and written later. The rest of the card in my opinion is dead on correct
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jim@stinsonsports.com